I used to get a lot of flack for comparing Trump and his cult to Nazis. “But they aren’t sending Jews, educators and communists to concentration camps”, I’m told.
Only by the grace of our democratic institutions of elections, checks and balances, I would respond.
Their hate and lies are every bit as toxic as Nazi hate and lies.
If
you disagree, have a look at this Trump fascist:
==
"Former
Trump White House aide who met with January 6 panel attacks witnesses,
lawmakers in profane and sexist rant"
(CNN)A former Trump White House aide who met with the January 6 committee earlier this week went on a profane and sexist rant on a livestream after his testimony, where he railed against the lawmakers and attacked other witnesses, according to audio posted to his Telegram.
The aide, Garrett Ziegler, met with the House panel on Tuesday. Lawmakers were likely interested in hearing from him because of his ties to one of the most shocking episodes of the 2020 election saga: A White House meeting where then-President Donald Trump's outside allies tried to convince him to declare martial law and use the military to seize voting machines.
In the 27-minute livestream, Ziegler used vulgar and misogynistic language to attack Cassidy Hutchinson and Alyssa Farah Griffin, two women who worked for the Trump White House but have since publicly broken from the former President and cooperated with the January 6 panel.
He also accused the January 6 House select committee of being "anti-White," without any evidence. (The nine-member panel is led by Rep. Bennie Thompson, a Mississippi Democrat, who is Black.)
"They're Bolsheviks," Ziegler said in the stream, referring to the far-left communists who led the Soviet Union, "so, they probably do hate the American founders and most White people in general. This is a Bolshevistic anti-White campaign. If you can't see that, your eyes are freaking closed. And so, they see me as a young Christian who they can try to basically scare, right?"
At the White House, Ziegler was an aide to Trump trade adviser Peter Navarro, who was charged with contempt of Congress for defying the panel's subpoena. (He pleaded not guilty.)
==
Is anyone else reminded of the line from Hamlet, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"?
Herr Ziegler’s remarks sound exactly like those we’d hear at a Nazi rally.
It’s all there. Racism, red baiting, demonization, false victimhood, sexism, anger and hatred, and of course the “Big Lie”, all wrapped in his whiteness and religion.
He’s just another of the many Trumpists who’ve proven the axiom, “When fascism comes to America, it will be carrying a Bible wrapped in the flag”.
Andrew Torba, CEO and founder of the Trumpist neo-Nazi social media site Gab said, “We’re building a parallel Christian society because we are fed up and done with the Judeo-Bolshevik one.”
Gab is the site used by the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter to spew his racism and anti-Semitism.
The campaign to elect Republican candidate Doug Mastriano as Pennsylvania's governor paid Gab $5,000 on April 28 for “campaign consulting,” according to the latest campaign finance disclosures.
On a visit to Europe to mark the 100th anniversary of the end of the first world war, Donald Trump insisted to his then chief of staff, John Kelly: “Well, Hitler did a lot of good things.”
Am I exaggerating their rhetoric?
Let’s compare their words to the words of Adolf Hitler.
"National
Socialism neither opposes the church nor is it anti-religious, but on the
contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity."
Hitler, 1934 speech
“The National Government...regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life." - Adolf Hitler "My New Order" - Proclamation to the German Nation, Berlin, February 1, 1933
"The Marxists will march with democracy until they succeed in indirectly obtaining for their criminal aims the support of even the national intellectual world, destined by them for extinction."
“The German state is gravely attacked by Marxism."
"When I recognized the Jew as the leader of the Social Democracy, the scales dropped from my eyes."
"God the Almighty has made our nation. By defending its existence we are defending His work. . . (Hitler radio address, 30 January 1945)
The American radical Right have the distinction of openly sharing other Nazi values.
Suppressing democracy is important to them. "The [Nazi party] should not become a constable of public opinion, but must dominate it. It must not become a servant of the masses, but their master!”
The far Right’s primary Big Lie is “liberal media” in
their war on journalism. Journalism has always been seen as a threat to
totalitarians and authoritarians.
The German Nazis used the term “Lügenpresse”, or lying
press, in their campaign to destroy journalism. Now American fascists cry
“liberal media” and “fake news” when the truth threatens their agenda.
Trump echoes this in every way he can: “Just
remember, what you are seeing and
what you are reading is not what's happening.”
On October 10, 1936 Heinrich Himmler created the Reich
Central Office for Combating Homosexuality and Abortion, or Special Office (II
S), a sub-department of Executive Department II of the Gestapo.
The question now is, when will, or can, decent
Republicans like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger who respect our Constitution
regain influence in their party?
Former Republican strategist Stuart
Stevens is among them.
Stevens described the GOP under Donald
Trump as a party of cynics, stooges, racists, and obsequious enablers
whose profiles in cowardice bear an uncomfortable resemblance to 1930s Germany.
“When I talk to Republican politicians, I hear Franz von Papen,” he says,
referencing the German chancellor who convinced Germans that so-called radical
leftists were a far greater threat than Adolf Hitler. “They all know that Trump
is an idiot. They all know that he’s uniquely unqualified to be president. But
they convinced themselves that he was a necessity.”
Stevens calls Trump a “traitor” to his country. “I really
think he is against America,” he says, blaming the Republican Party for “a
complete collapse of responsibility that they had to defend democracy
in America.”
Essentially the fate of our republic lies in the hands of
brave Republicans who renounce Trumpism.
God help us.
Posts
57 comments:
Even before Hitler came on the scene there has always been a strong thread of fascism in the American people and American politics. Sometimes stronger than other times. No doubt Trump and his followers are the worst we have ever seen. It was left leaning Democrats who created the KKK. Fascism will never completely die in America, but we hope the American people will not fall for their hate filled ideology as they did in 2016.
Anonymous,
I agree up to your "left leaning Democrats who created the KKK" remark.
That's an imaginative description of pro-slavery Confederates and fascism.
Follow that into the 20th century. Who were the Dixiecrats?
From Wiki: Dixiecrats: The States' Rights Democratic Party was a short-lived segregationist political party in the United States, active primarily in the South. It arose due to a Southern regional split in opposition to the Democratic Party from 1948 to 1952.
They supported conservative segregationist Strom Thurmond for president, who later became a Republican.
Still NOT "left leaning".
Now follow that to this century. Klansmen are NOT Democrats today. They are Trumpists.
I really don't know why you think Confederates and Dixiecrats were left leaning. They were Southern conservatives.
Care to educate us on how you reached that strange conclusion?
Please don't answer with other questions. You sound like Jerry the troll, who insisted there were no similarities between the American Radical Right and Nazis, and called me a liar when I disagreed with his statement that Brown Shirts assassinated German leaders before Hitler took power. He failed to cite any evidence, and got angry at me for requesting it.
I'm an avid reader of history. Obviously you're not. Remember that.
Anonymous reminds us a disturbed man assaulted a crooked NY Rep and candidate for governor who supported Trump's Big Lie and voted to overturn the election.
Anonymous sent a copy-and-paste far Right piece claiming "GOP strategist Arthur Schwartz and New York GOP Chairman Nick Langworthy pointed out, Hochul’s campaign sent out a press release just hours before the failed attack on Zeldin that blasted out the time and location of several of Zeldin campaign’s upcoming stops."
The last part about time and locations is a lie. Also the fact that the disturbed man is an unemployed Iraq War veteran was ignored.
The piece ranted about evil "leftists" attacking "patriots", deflecting from Trump's violent bloody insurrection with, "This is exponentially worse than any semblance of encouragement Donald Trump allegedly gave the January 6 mostly peaceful protesters"
So, no. It wasn't "exponentially worse" in any possible way.
It was another lie.
Poor oppressed white conservatives influence and control a far greater share of Congress than the majority of Americans. Always playing the victim card to boost hate for the minorities and the opposition.
The facts:
Politico reports:
Shortly after the news broke, Hochul put out a statement on Twitter condemning the incident.
“My team has informed me about the incident at Lee Zeldin’s campaign event tonight. Relieved to hear that Congressman Zeldin was not injured and that the suspect is in custody. I condemn this violent behavior in the strongest terms possible — it has no place in New York,” the statement read.
State GOP party Chair Nick Langworthy criticized Hochul and the state Democratic Committee for the response. Just hours earlier, her campaign put out a statement mirroring Zeldin’s announcement of his statewide tour, but announcing each stop with its criticisms of his campaign.
It didn’t say where the stops were.
“On Thursday, July 21, 2022, “Big Lie” Lee and his entourage of extremists kick off the statewide ‘MAGA Republican’ Bus Tour, which will make stops across the state peddling dangerous lies, misinformation, and his far-right agenda. At stops during the tour, Zeldin will be joined by top anti-abortion advocates, NRA enthusiasts, and a cast of extremist groups,” it read.
“RSVP to hear about Zeldin’s “Election Integrity Task Force,” and his recent election fraud scandal in which his campaign photocopied over 11,000 duplicate petition signatures,” read one portion of the mocked schedule.
(All true.)
I never said Confederates and Dixiecrats were left leaning, you said that. Since you claim you are the only one that understands history, there is no reason to have any discussion with you. Although I am not Jerry, I understand his frustration to try and have dialogue with you. I did not answer with other questions, although there are many other questions, but you have made it clear that only you know the true answers to everything and therefore it's useless to discuss anything with you. As usual you won't post this response either.
For the record:
Anonymous: "I never said Confederates and Dixiecrats were left leaning, you said that."
Anonymous at 6:29pm: "It was left leaning Democrats who created the KKK."
DD: I agree up to your "left leaning Democrats who created the KKK" remark. That's an imaginative description of pro-slavery Confederates and fascism.
Anonymous: "Follow that into the 20th century. Who were the Dixiecrats?"
(Followed by) "I did not answer with other questions."
Anonymous insists on bad faith discourse.
Anonymous: "Since you claim you are the only one that understands history, there is no reason to have any discussion with you."
That was not my claim, and if Anonymous says so, he lacks reading comprehension, or is simply a liar. My words: I'm an avid reader of history. Obviously you're not.
Anonymous: "I am not Jerry."
No? He just sounds exactly like him. Their bad faith weaseling and trolling are identical.
Anonymous: "As usual you won't post this response either."
WRONG AGAIN.
Life is hard when your "victimhood" results from your own behavior, and you whine about it.
Obvious conclusion:
Anonymous is a dishonest troll. Or mentally unfit for rational discourse.
Can Anonymous can stop trolling and let us know the names of "left leaning Democrats who created the KKK"?
That's what he'll have to do if he wants to continue here.
DD: Please don't answer with other questions. You sound like Jerry the troll
Anonymous: "Who is Jerry? What is his blog address? I'd like to hear what he says about your accusations."
Someone is refusing a civil request to support an assertion he made, and deflecting....just like Jerry.
Should I call him "Anonymous Jerry" from now on?
Steve Bannon has been charged with contempt of Congress & found guilty, while Brennan, Clapper & others who lied to Congress have never been charged or prosecuted. This just shows yet again how the DOJ has been weaponized by those in power to go after their political opponents.
pic.twitter.com/aJXJGUqOTb
Of course Trump didn't issue an order to deploy the National Guard. He couldn't. He offered the Guard, but the offer was declined.
I hate weaselly snakes.
Anonymous,
Goes to show if you obey a subpoena you don't get convicted for refusing.
I know of some Supreme Court Justices who lied to Congress about Roe v Wade being settled law. Lock them up with Clapper and Brennan, if they lied.
Poor Pence was the one to call for the Guard. He was Trump's target that day.
Weaselly snakes ignore the fact Trump was Commander-in-Chief of the DC Guard. HE deliberately refused to do anything to stop his thugs for 3 hours, violating his Oath and dereliction of duty.
\\Their hate and lies are every bit as toxic as Nazi hate and lies.
It's very interesting to me, can you provide more details -- what exactly "lies and hate" you refer to.
I am not pro-nazi, of course.
But, there, I presume, could be big discrepancies in outlook from West and from East... which interesting to compare.
Em...
""They're Bolsheviks," Ziegler said in the stream, referring to the far-left communists who led the Soviet Union"
So, what's the problem here? Isn't that bare historical undenyable fact?
"so, they probably do hate the American founders and most White people in general. This is a Bolshevistic anti-White campaign.
Well, proper ideological explanation from Bolshevick's side would be quite more hairy, but I see no prob with such short summary too.
"On his Telegram channel, Ziegler continues to promote debunked conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. He falsely claimed in recent posts that "the election was stolen" and that the January 6 attack on the US Capitol "was one of the greatest orchestrated false flags in history.""
Well, that is Freedom of Speach. Isn't it?
""The Marxists will march with democracy until they succeed in indirectly obtaining for their criminal aims the support of even the national intellectual world, destined by them for extinction.""
Well, that was not shallow words -- that is EXACT depiction of what happened in USSR since 1917.
When intellectual people was exiled. And those who still was dumb enough, or too loving toward motherland to leave, was dissolved in Gulag.
Sorry, but main point of your this post is not apparent form me.
I would like more proper reaction to my comment. Instead of blatant ignore.
But, if that is your genuine reaction, I'll take it as an answer. O.K.
Liberal fascists want to end the filibuster so they can push through their socialists agenda at the Federal level. Because they claim the "RADICAL" right wing idea of having a citizen weight contentious issues by engaging in open discourse and then electing representatives to enact legislation that reflects their priorities,
IS A CLEAR THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY.
Democrats twist the meaning of democracy. American democracy is a threat to democrats' view of democracy.
The Anonymous troll shows us what an idiot believes. He can't figure out MORE Americans voted for Democrats for president, the House, AND the Senate to represent them.
AND He's STILL incapable of answering a simple question.
Who legitimately won the 2020 presidential election?
Crickets...
Yup, he's the genius who thinks he can lecture us. LOL!
What will be his next brilliant comment?
Nobody will know, until he answers that simple question.
\\Foreigner,
Our radical Right white nationalists are America's version of Nazis.
That is not apparent to me. That's why I asking for more details.
\\The use the same demonizing rhetoric as Hitler did.
Like what? By claiming jews to be "pests"??? That need to be exterminated?
Am I missing something?
\\I was comparing Ziegler's remarks to Hitler's for that reason.
I didn't found it in that excerpts given by you in the post itself. That's why I tryed to ask for elaboration.
\\Ziegler is accusing the Democrats AND Republican on the committee investigating Trump's coup of being "Bolsheviks".
\\\It is a fascist lie.
Can you give precise quote of it?
\\He also echoes Hitler in his white nationalism wrapped in Christianity.
Like what? Proposing to exterminate all non-whites?
\\Trump's Big Lie about the election is not free speech.
So? While not able to make him accountable for his words... you propose to deny him to speak freely?
\\We have restrictions on speech for the safety of the public.
Sorry for pointing it out. But that is EXACTLY what any UNdemocratical regime trying to achieve. ABSOLUTELY with same explanation. That "public must be protected", from some evil-speakers.
I have an example, that is far away and not that known to you, probably -- RFia of Putin. Where exactly that process going on rampage. With list of what "public must be protected from" grow bigger and bigger only.
\\In the US, democracy is merely an illusion to support the capitalist oligarchy.
Now. That is exact words of Putin's Nasty Poisonous Propaganda. Exact reasons why they deny and explain to the people of RFia why they do not need Democracy -- 'cause there is no democracy anywhere, anyway. So, why you'd need something so ethereal and unpractical???
Better believe in Strong Leader, who will build Strong Country. Where all and any of socialistic dreams would be achieved... after when ALL enemies, inner and foreign, would be destroyed, of course.
They even tend to call that "enemies" fascists. Habitually. And for simple people to understand better. As in USSR time everyubody was schooled that fascists is the worst. Enemies that must be killed without any questions or tryals.
Do you mean the same about Reps, now? Am I understand you clearly and promptly enough?
PS I will not fuss about this my comment would not be disclosed. This time.
But, with all due respect, still I'll be inclined to excercise my own freedom, freedom of though, assession and speach... to make my conclusions of it. Well, confirmation of my previous ones.
(Continue)
Q: “In the US, democracy is merely an illusion to support the capitalist oligarchy.”
That is exact words of Putin's Nasty Poisonous Propaganda.
A: Most propaganda contains an element of truth, but never the whole truth. We still have elements or remnants of democracy, even though the wealthy are represented more than the public. We voted Trump out of office. Russians cannot vote Putin out. This is the difference. Putin won’t talk about that.
The US Constitution provides for elections, the right to vote, and a representative democracy. The rich and powerful have been corrupting the democratic process with massive amounts of campaign donations and lobbying. Conservative judges have essentially legalized bribery as “free speech”.
Q: Do you mean the same about Reps, now? Am I understand you clearly and promptly enough?
A: “Fascist” is word that has a lot of different meanings. In the case of the US, I use it as a term for authoritarian, anti-democratic, proponents of white, conservative minority rule. This is what the Republican Party under Trump has become. They actively purge anyone who isn’t loyal to Trump. Trump fits most definitions of “fascist”. This is shown by his hate, scapegoating, demonizing lies, his violent attack on our election, and the fascist rhetoric his follower quoted above.
They terrorized Black female election workers.
I'll stop comparing them to racist Nazis when they stop sounding and acting like racist Nazis:
"Names Of Election Worker Witnesses Found On Oath Keeper Suspect's 'Death List': Court Filing"
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ruby-freeman-shaye-moss-georgia-election-workers-oath-keeper-death-list_n_62e613b2e4b0d0ea9b77b127
The names of mother and daughter Georgia poll workers who memorably testified before the House Jan. 6 committee were found on a “death list” kept by an alleged leader of the militant Oath Keepers group, according to court filings.
Ruby Freeman and Wandrea “Shaye” Moss presented heartbreaking testimony before the House committee in June that they were the target of racist attacks and threats for doing their jobs as election workers in the wake of baseless claims by Donald Trump that the 2020 presidential election was rigged.
“I have lost my name and I have lost my reputation,” Ruby Freeman said in a pretaped interview aired at the hearing. “I have lost my sense of security. All because a group of people, starting with Number 45 and his ally Rudy Giuliani, decided to scapegoat me to push their own lies about how the presidential election was stolen.”
Moss, Freeman’s daughter, testified that she no longer felt safe leaving home.
The women’s names were written on a pad of paper labeled “death list” found by police in the home of suspected Oath Keeper Thomas Caldwell, according to court documents.
Caldwell, a Navy veteran who once worked as a section chief for the FBI, is one of nine alleged Oath Keepers who have been charged with seditious conspiracy following the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.
Caldwell is also charged with obstructing an official proceeding, destruction of government property, and unlawful entry on restricted buildings or grounds, according to the complaints against him. He was known in the group as “Commander Tom,” authorities said.
Federal prosecutors revealed the existence of the “death list” early this month, but they did not name the workers. A court filing in response by Caldwell’s lawyer, however, revealed their identities in a footnote reference, as Politico’s Kyle Cheney first pointed out.
Caldwell’s lawyer claimed in his filing Friday that the list is nothing more than a harmless “doodle pad.”
“This document is not a ‘list,’ but, rather, a doodle pad. The words ‘death list’ are written in all caps, whereas the balance of writing on the doodle pad is written in upper and lower-case letters,” argued the defense motion to exclude the notepad evidence in the case against Caldwell.
Anonymous the coward still refuses to answer my simple question about who won the 2020 election.
Instead he deflects with:
"Where did anyone post on his blog that Biden didn't legitimately win the 2020 presidential election?"
He's a coward, too cowardly to deny, or even stand by, Trump's Big Lie.
He is exactly what Trump called Pence on January 6th 2021.
He arrogantly thinks he's a patriot, but he would vote for Trump again in a heartbeat.
And we all know it.
\\Ziegler was calling the Democrats and Republicans “Bolsheviks”. He wasn’t discussing Russian history. He was demonizing those who want to hold Trump accountable for his coup.
That is hyperbolization. I cannot assess it clearly, because of lacking of understanding of cultural codes on your turf.
Is calling someone "bolshevik" is so big an insult? That question relates to more in-depth inquery of how at all you in USA see 20th century history of our part of the world. Because, from what I have seen so far, it is quite partial and more-less romantic.
Like "oh, those russians" sigh.
So, hardly that Z-guy knows a lot enough about "romantic" deeds of real world bolshevicks like: genocides, Gulag, world war ignition and etc...
As well as his counterparts, to see it that damning.
Well, I understand that answering to such a questions could be a real hassle. So, I will not push it further.
\\Jews were not the only people Hitler wanted exterminated. “Non-Aryans” were his targets.
Believe me, I know it. :-/
Because I, my late relatives was that "non-aryans".
That's why I wondering. Hitler was quite open and eloquent even, about what he will do with that who nazis have decided as not deserving life.
So, is there some papers, some evidances, that Reps is the same in it?
\\The Republican Party is not a Nazi party, but it is leaning towards fascism in its dishonest and hateful rhetoric and suppression of voter rights.
"leaning toward fascism"? Isn't it itself is a hate-speach... if not based on some apparent evidances?
Forgive me, if something. I already have explained it, why I am not easy around words like "fascism"... 'cause you know, we -- Ukrainians, smeared with that word. To the level RFia and Putin want all world to agree with their war against us -- because they allegedly killing "fascists" here and now.
\\A: No. It is the demonizing lie about whites and Christians being victimized by communists
Em?
Wasn't thousand of prists was sent to Gulag in USSR?
Wasn't temples and churches destrouyed?
Yet more -- isn't there was a tons of propaganda about "communists are internationalists, and that way only inclined to help all people of color around the World... to kill that nasty white imperialists".
As far as I know, and that is not some shallow knowledge from books... or Wikipedia, but my and my relatives lifetime experiences -- that communists was EXACTLY THAT... and even much more worse.
\\Courts are still determining what speech is covered by our First Amendment and what is not. But I hope you get the general principle.
Sorry for my doubts.
You should give me a slack here.
We have not that firm and happy experience with courts here.
As they still carry some resemblance with USSR times courts.
Which was not independent in their judgment, to such an extent as to decide something about and around "general principles". :-)
To say the least.
to be cont.
.
\\We voted Trump out of office. Russians cannot vote Putin out. This is the difference. Putin won’t talk about that.
Well, talking pragmatically... one cannot decide, can he or cannot do something, until he tryed.
And Russians didn't tryed to vote out Putin.
Close-by in Belorus people have tryed... but it seems too late, far after they lost that ability.
About Ukraine and Ukrainians you should be heard it -- we did it with Revolution. Twice. :-)
And from that perspective, I see it like that people on 6th of January... have taken our example too closer to their hearts -- with believing that they need to do something similar. In direct democracy way.
Does it make sence, such an observation?
\\A: “Fascist” is word that has a lot of different meanings.
Yeah. And that is the worst.
As that makes it possible to twist its historical meaning and to use it as a weapon. By true fascists... and even nazi-wannabe. :-((
Historical "fascists"... was not that scary and important even.
That is nazis... who created all fame...
Let's assume that there was Musolini, Franco and some others,
but NO Hitler... would it even be important or even known, by someone other then bookworm historians? That then, long time ago, there was people who was calling themself "fascists"???
So, why not use for Trump much more close and less loaded "militant populist"? Another word for a blatant lier, who cover his desire of power under tons of sweettalks about how he want to help people... if only they'll give him access to state power.
Isn't it?
Foreigner,
“It is the demonizing lie about whites and Christians being victimized by communists.” This applies to the US. Communists are not a threat to our country. They have zero power and their numbers are few. Our own FBI says radical Right extremists are a major domestic terrorism threat.
This is why the Right has embrace “red baiting”, to frighten people into supporting their radical anti-democratic agenda.
Most Americans understand the brutalities Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean communism have commited. This is why calling Democrats communists is very much a Hitler tactic and blatant lie.
And no, a mob storming the Capitol is NOT democracy in any form. It is mob violence and political terrorism. Democracy means fair elections, which they were brainwashed into not accepting.
Again all the hallmarks of fascism are present here.
Hitler and Trump both sought power by a Putsch.
As we’ve learned from history and the recent past, courts can be very unjust and politically partisan. Trump’s Supreme Court Justices lied under oath about abortion rights being established law. They side with corporate and banking interests at least 90% of the time. One feature of fascism is the unity of government and big business against public interests.
Even without Hitler, Mussolini gave us the term fascism. His actions defined it through a cruel dictatorship, collaboration with industry and banks, destruction of democracy, belligerent nationalism, and wars of aggression.
Hitler took it further with his racism and “Master Race” bullshit. The US has many white nationalists and racists who follow that example. It has become a core element of fascism. The Japanese had their version in WWII as well.
Trump has a lot of fans who are happy to call him a militant populist. This is a cover for his racism, hatred for democracy, and criminality. THAT makes him a fascist, by my definition and most other definitions.
\\Hyperbole is an exaggeration. You've probably heard common hyperboles in everyday conversations such as “I'm so hungry, I could eat a horse,” “I've seen this movie a hundred times,” or “It cost an arm and a leg.”
That's why I'm asking. As not native speaker I cannot know how hyperbole in this or that foreign language seen. Like when I was corrected that words like "moron" is a grave insult, while I thought (mostly from movies) that that is nothing but light intellectual swearing.
So, I trying to be more carefull around such things today.
That's why I asking about that "nazi" calling. So persistently.
\\Ziegler was emulating Hitler’s lies and hate rhetoric. This goes well beyond hyperbolic exaggeration.
For now, I can only believe to your word and your assessment...
\\It is a demonizing and scapegoating tactic of Nazis and other fascists.
As far as I know, there is no open fascists today. Well, apart from insignificant funny dudes who call themself "neo-nazis" and do cosplay in nazi uniform.
That same ruSSians, in accordance with old saying "Fascists of the future will call themself anti-fascists", claiming that they fighting against "nazis" -- us.
\\Radical Right Republicans, not all of them, employ this lie as a tool to incite hate for an opponent.
Can you give direct and apparent quotes?
\\We call it “Red baiting”. Red baiting intends to discredit the validity of a political opponent and the opponent's logical argument by accusing, denouncing, attacking, or persecuting the target individual or group as anarchist, communist, Marxist, socialist, Stalinist, etc.
Well. I maybe not that fluent in current political narratives in USA.
But I know Mark Twain. For example his novella "How I tryed to be elected as governor".
Nothing changes, it seems.
\\This is the reason they call Democrats communists.
That's why I'm asking -- what exactly you know about "being communists" in USA. That is very intriguing question to me, I cannot find answer elsewhere. Well, I could read some books about it. But that would be point of view of some author. While what is most interesting is -- what average USA citizen know and how assess it?
From my perspective. There is NO "communists", but there was multitude of people from different countries which tryed call themself communists. Obviously communists of Cuba, is not the same as communists of USSR, or China... and that one is very different if taken from different moments of history.
For example communists in USSR in 1917 -- that is some young soldier, who listened for proclamations of Lenin, and decided that burguious must be killed.
And communist from 1991, that was some marasmatic old pensioner, still clinging to his memories of past...
That makes too difficult for me to assess what a big problem with calling Dems communists? Isn't they want "better future for all Humanity", as idealised communists should be doing? Or, maybe, they proclaim and trying to ignite a world war, as real world commies tryed to do?
What exactly accusations beyond that "they call Democrats communists"?
\\I understand history enough to know that the people of the Soviet Union suffered from Hitler’s war more than any other country.
"people of the Soviet Union" suffered even greater from commies.
And that is far beyond obvious accusation, that that is that time communists, who was at helm of USSR, ignited that war which costed so much lives.
And far beyond simple colonialism, in which West guilty the same way -- when people of distant, not involved countries was forced to die for the sake of europian politician military adventures.
There was blatant extermination of people for the sake of instilling fear and unanonimous subjugation. Which Hitler obviously took as example and rulebook instructions for his politics.
To sum it up in simple words. Nazis was killing others for the sake of their own kin. Commies was killing just everybody, no matter friend or foe, foreigner or own kin, opposing politically or communist themself.
That's why I have strong understanding, who of two evils: "nazis" and "commies" have proven track record of being worse evil.
\\I have a second cousin who was killed and another one captured by Nazis.
You have my condolencies here. And bright memory of their heroism. And sorrowful of their suffering.
As well as my late grandfathers, who fought on Eastern front.
As well as millions of nameless soldiers and mere vistims of that war, of which was far too many here. That have nobody to keep memory about them, as they died young and childless, or old and with their children died too, so there is no relatives remains to comemorate em.
That's why it's a duty of people like me, destendants of those who survived, to comemorate em too.
I hope you'd share that attitude too.
\\Putin also fits the definition of a fascist. He is an unaccountable anti-democratic tyrant, war-monger, who is intolerant of dissent and extreme in his methods of punishment.
\\
\\If there is a better term for him, I’m happy to consider it.
That one is a good question.
We here decided it the way similar to yours.
We longing to call him Putin-Khuilo(Dickhead).
But of course, that is name-calling and unacademic and unintellectual.
I know that some people on your ground call him "mafia boss" or "KGB agent". But that is also, quite superficial and do not reveal the truth behind his figure quite enough.
Really, hard question. But, maybe, you with your POV from afar could help me here too.
Problem with Putin, that that is not him alone. That is whole system.
Even russian people and history of that country -- at roots of what happening today.
Actually, Putin do not do anything new, what his predecessors, like Tzars and Stalin would not do. He adding only little twist to everything, because of new technologies, new political realities of the World (like nuclear weapon). But basicly, that is how Russia was living, all times from it was founded.
So, can we call him "fascist"? Sure, as we want him to be punched down and punished as one.
But. There lots of little, and not that little, discrepancies. That makes it difficult to define him properly.
\\Communists are not a threat to our country. They have zero power and their numbers are few.
Do you mean "inside threat"? As we all know about China's rise. And they are obvious commies. Well, self-proclaimed and red flag waving for sure.
As for today... I do not see a ground for any new political force, anywhere, to rise red flag of communism. Because core communist/marxist ideas was thoroughly disintegrated by History itself. The same with fascism.
That old bike do not work, and cannot be repaired.
But.
There could be some new poisonous mix. As it happens with deseases.
\\Most Americans understand the brutalities Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean communism have commited. This is why calling Democrats communists is very much a Hitler tactic and blatant lie.
Still cannot wrap my head around it. To call anyone communist -- there must be some resemblance. Some trait, that is real, to make it insulting and sticky.
Like calling stubborn man a donkey.
Forgive me here, if something. Still, I am really just a foreigner. And genuinely do not understand such subtleties. And can say something inapropriate without knowing.
\\And no, a mob storming the Capitol is NOT democracy in any form. It is mob violence and political terrorism. Democracy means fair elections, which they were brainwashed into not accepting.
This one, I cannot agree with. Arguebly. Because of our Ukrainian history. Our recent history. In which role of people's right to protest, to fallback to direct democracy mode. Was very important.
As in 2004, when the very people's insistance and presence in 100th of thousands on the streets of Kyiv -- saved our right to vote from grave maddling with numbers.
As in 2014, when it protected us from "unfriendly merge" with RFia, through totally corrupt and russia-bent government -- and that was with fire and gunshots, which freely can be called "mob violence and political terrorism", and do called that way by RFia and Putin.
And... most important, in 1991 -- that was one of that unforeseen but gravely important last straws that broken spine of a camel, direct involvement of ordinary people roaming streets and squares, that guarantied our independance.
Of course, Ukraine's history it's not USA's history.
So, direct analogies cannot be taken at face value. But with a big... lump of salt. :-)
\\Even without Hitler, Mussolini gave us the term fascism. His actions defined it through a cruel dictatorship, collaboration with industry and banks, destruction of democracy, belligerent nationalism, and wars of aggression.
Hmm... but there was a reason -- and that was communists/bolsheviks regime in russia. That tryed to deseminate Europe with marxists and start a World Revolution.
I do not try to white-wash fascism here.
Just clarifying place of it in a historical canvas.
Bolshevism was first, and Nazism was second and as direct reaction to it.
\\Hitler took it further with his racism and “Master Race” bullshit.
Not much can be built out of bullshit. Only that african huts, maybe.
So, as I see, much more grave and important was feeling of revanchism and general unfairness of the world order. As it was installed after WW1.
Threaty of Versales and all.
Plus, development of technologies, of which Germans was pioneers and masterful geniuses.
Without that... Hitler would be just another Mussolini. Brainless buffon, riding a wave of sudden luck. Until inevitable fail and fall.
So do Trump.
Oh, there was USSR, with Stalin. Too. Slautering people for the sake of speeding up with preparations for a global war. And people who was helping both Hitler and Stalin, while collecting good profit from deals with em.
Go figure who was the worst. AFAIK there still no definite answer.
You see that capitalism can collaborate with both fascism and communism. Henry Ford was famous for that. He was a fan of Hitler before the war.
For the purpose in this discussion, I’m using the term fascism for authoritarian rule by corporate wealth aligned with dictatorial government power, expressed through belligerent nationalism, racism, brutal law enforcement and suppression of democracy. They tend to scapegoat and accuse minorities, democratic socialists and educators for the nation’s problems.
While Marxism rightly recognized class injustice, communism is the total ownership of land, resources and property by the government, under a one-party dictatorship, also characterized by brutal law enforcement and suppression of democracy. Capitalism is blamed for injustice and human suffering.
Both systems ignore the fact that dictatorships are a leading cause for human suffering. It was also true of unregulated capitalism during the industrial revolution. Some of its damage is still ongoing. One example is in the US, where the right to healthcare is denied by the corporate power of insurance companies obstructing public healthcare.
Both communism and fascism demand political conformity in their populations and educational systems. Both support harsh punishment for enemies and dissent.
Americans have generally ignored fascism since the Second World War, falsely believing it was eradicated. They mostly see only neo-Nazis in cosplay as fascists.
Americans have been taught to fear and hate communism, therefore to fear and hate communists. It was the justification for the Cold War, and for the wars in Korea and Vietnam.
No lie is too outrageous from the radical Right. Demonizing lies are their way of inflaming fear, anger and hatred in their duped voters.
Here are some of the quotes you requested:
Pro-Trump propagandist “Q-Anon” lied about Democrats running criminal pedophile sex rings. Trump praised them for their support:
“I heard that these are people that love our country... I understand they like me very much...it is gaining in popularity.”
Trump loyalist Marjorie Taylor-Greene is one of the most vile dishonest neo-fascists of the Republican Party:
(Democrat) Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the little communist from New York City. That’s right. Yeah, lock her up, too. That’s a good idea. She’s not an American.
But the Communists in charge of the House are purposely abusing the Constitution and the institution of Congress... “The real truth is the communist revolution that the Democrats funded and waged every single day and every single night in American cities all across our country,”
Biden’s communist agenda must be stopped.
The Democrats are launching a communist takeover of our country with their so-called “infrastructure” bill and Biden’s budget.
Ted Nugent of the radical Right NRA:
He called President Obama a "subhuman mongrel".
"I have obviously failed to galvanize and prod, if not shame enough Americans to be ever vigilant not to let a Chicago communist-raised, communist-educated, communist-nurtured subhuman mongrel like the ACORN community organizer gangster Barack Hussein Obama to weasel his way into the top office of authority in the United States of America," Nugent said in response to a question about the 2016 election.
Republican Eric Schmitt:
“They want to replace the Declaration of Independence with the Communist Manifesto.”
Trump:
They’re letting thugs and murderers into our Country—their DA’s, AG’s, and Dem Law Enforcement are out of control. This is what happens in communist countries and dictatorships, and they don’t think they’ll be held accountable for rigging the 2020 Presidential Election.
Slobs and Radical Left maniacs at the View are the Communists. (Democratic women on a talks show.)
“Like it or not, we are becoming a communist country. That’s what’s happening. The radical left democrat communist party.
Compare that to Hitler’s words:
“The streets of our country are in turmoil. The Universities are filled with students rebelling and rioting. Communists are seeking to destroy our country. Russia is threatening us with her might and the republic is in danger. Yes, danger from within and without. We need law and order. Yes, without law and order our nation cannot survive. Elect us and we shall restore law and order." Adolph Hilter, Hamburg, Germany, 1932
\\For the purpose in this discussion, I’m using the term fascism
That is correct termin. AFAIK. And I do not argue against it.
My point is that it is too wide and hairy. That allows to point at one or another side of it, to smear into opponent resemblance to that nasty fascists.
Like, in USSR most loved and most important was -- "nazis was fighting against communists" to develop it into ideological cliche that anybody who fight against communists -- is nazi.
\\While Marxism rightly recognized class injustice
Hardly. They was riding on it politically. Like, from previous historical times I would use such analogy. From time of religious wars. When this or that religious faction based there accusations on claims like "they are godless barbarians, they torturing people to death" -- and that was factually right.
But, when that faction wins and enter newly conquered town, what they do? Yeah, they kill and torture people to death. "Bad people", of course. :-)
\\Americans have been taught to fear and hate communism, therefore to fear and hate communists. It was the justification for the Cold War, and for the wars in Korea and Vietnam.
Well. That Communists. Was making more and more ICBMs and H-bombs, and nuclear submarines. So, that fear was more than justified. That was real. And still are real deal danger.
Vietnam was controversial. Same as USSR's invasion to Afganistan.
But Korean war... I cannot see another way than essential rehearsal of WW3, which fizzled down its possiblity -- showed that A-bomb would not help to win.
.
\\Here are some of the quotes you requested:
1) ///Pro-Trump propagandist “Q-Anon” lied about Democrats running criminal pedophile sex rings.
Thank you. But well, that is not nazi-style propaganda.
That is more like in that Mark Twain's text.
Running for Governor (1870)
by Mark Twain
A few months ago I was nominated for Governor of the great State of New York, to run against Stewart L. Woodford and John T. Hoffman, on an independent ticket. I somehow felt that I had one prominent advantage over these gentlemen, and that was, good character. It was easy to see by the newspapers, that if ever they had known what it was to bear a good name, that time had gone by. It was plain that in these latter years they had become familiar with all manner of shameful crimes.
...
As I was looking listlessly over the papers at breakfast, I came across this paragraph, and I may truly say I never was so confounded before:
PERJURY. -- Perhaps, now that Mr. Mark Twain is before the people as a candidate for Governor, he will condescend to explain how he came to be convicted of perjury by thirty-four witnesses, in Wakawak, Cochin China, in 1863, the intent of which perjury was to rob a poor native widow and her helpless family of a meagre plantain patch, their only stay and support in their bereavement and their desolation.
...
2) \\\Biden’s communist agenda must be stopped.
That's why I asked more details about that "communist agenda".
It is impossible to destroy narrative without deconstructing it. IMHO.
3) \\\Trump: This is what happens in communist countries and dictatorships, and they don’t think they’ll be held accountable
Yeah, that's why I so bewildered of what exactly ordinary american know about that "communist countries" and "dictatorships"?
Why that rings a bell to them, when they hear such wild accusations???
\\Compare that to Hitler’s words:
“The streets of our country are in turmoil. The Universities are filled with students rebelling and rioting. Communists are seeking to destroy our country. Russia is threatening us with her might and the republic is in danger.
...
Adolph Hilter, Hamburg, Germany, 1932
But isn't this part is EXACTly factual and historical truth?
(Stalin's) Industrialization, 1929–34
The industrial growth rate originally laid down was 18–20 percent (in fact, this had already been achieved, at least on paper). Later in the year Stalin insisted on nearly doubling this rate.
And that was *NOT* peaceful build up.
That was factories to make guns, cannons, tanks and bomber aircrafts.
\\That's why I asked more details about that "communist agenda".
\\
\\There is no "communist agenda" in the Democratic Party.
I know. That's why I placed it in "". But still, there is something in that ideas that make it look for your fellow americans as justified comparation. And I cannot know what. Because of very different cultural and historical experience. From my POV "communist agenda" -- that is what Putin doing, and Xi trying copycating him -- firing up a world war.
Hardly Biden coplicit in anything like that.... even from a standpoint of tinfoil hat conspirologist Q-anon. :-)))
\\Remember Trump and his radical Right are liars.
Here is a problem.
As I know from my basic university course of politology. And twice as that from my lifetime experiences. Calling politician a lier... it's like accusing a frog being wet. :-)
They NEVER say (all?) truth.
And I am grown up enough to understand the reasons of it. (for the very least, because of bottlenecks of communication -- one cannot have fair conversation with millions, that's technically impossible)
\\Communists had fairly elected representatives before Hitler outlawed their party.
Do you know historical reasons behind termin "bolshevik"?
\\If you are familiar with Stalin’s plan to invade Germany, I would like to learn more of it. Was he really a direct threat, or was Hitler instilling fear to gain support?
It is very unpleasant to hear such words from you. Not your fault, though.
Hardly you'd know that there is like half a century (or more, dunno) struggle. Between neo-stalinists (like Putin and his legion today) and those who tryed to argue that Stalin was EQUAL, or even bigger culprit of that mass-murdering genocidal crime -- called Second World War...
And neo-stalinists use exactly this "argument", while ignoring WHOLE mountains of evidances: communistic ideology of need of World Revolution, bone-crashing preparations to it, all kinds of plans and deeds going in that direction.
So... forgive me my frankness, if you can.
But that inquery to show "Stalin’s plan to invade Germany", is perfeclly like -- "hah, and show me handwriten paper where Trump in clear wording pleads being guilty in trying to make a coup at 6th of Jenuary".
But still, I am open to discuss this topic. And to reveal everything I know about it, while being pointly sceptically argumentatively refuted.
Who knows... what if I am wrong.
.
\\Hitler signed a non-aggression treaty with Stalin before they both invaded Poland. It was Hitler who planned to violate the treaty and invade the Soviet Union.
That was Stalin who started to violate the treaty. That hiden part of it.
When he started to invade into new and new territories not in accordance with plan... using that fact that nazi Germany was hands and head deep in fight on the Western front.
\\Mark Twain’s piece on running for governor was fictional satire. His reference to Stewart L. Woodford and John T. Hoffman being “familiar with all manner of shameful crimes” is actually based on a real association with a corrupt criminal political figure.
I am avid reader of Twain. Means I know him not only from cerriculum reading like about Tom and Geck.
But also his blazing anti-clerical "Satan's diary" and others.
So, I'm quite puzzled to hear that he was not that open and honest writer.
That his texts have some hiden second bottom(s?). Some secret messages...
Like in this piece, in which I saw only apparent depiction of what political dogfights really are.
\\I see it as quite similar. Spreading outrageous demonizing and dehumanizing lies to fuel hatred is Nazi-style propaganda.
Heh. I give it benefit of a doubt.
While I think I am most prepared, practicly an expert in what "outrageous demonizing and dehumanizing lies" are. Because RFia of Putin pouring whole waterfalls of it on us, on Ukraine.
In 24/7/365 manner.
And... I am not that included into USA media space to hear enough.
Well, I watching CNN and BBC today, but mostly to know how Western media reports about our war against ruSSian invaders (and this observations not very settling).
But I was not watched it in 2016-2020 that closely. And only tiny portion of info trickled to me, maybe.
Still, I see it benefitial. Mutually even.
That you can have in me a honest uninvolved bystender, on whom you can check your assamptions.
\\You're right about politics being a dirty business. It attracts immoral narcissists and authoritarians who have an advantage in dishonesty. Humanity is plagued by such people, and they will be the primary reason behind our likely eventual extinction.
Somehow... I am more positive in my overview. :-)
Because of more wide swing it happens in our (recent) Ukrainian history.
We have had bad politicians, yes. But we have had good ones too. (or that who are not good, but forced to be go... well, bearable. as our current prezidente)
\\I'm just not familiar with his pre-war intent to invade Germany. Ironically Hitler's war gave him his reason and opportunity to occupy Germany, as well as much of Europe.
That's because initial idea was "workers of all around the world will fight against their burguis, and then unite to make World Government".
But when it didn't happened, it shifted to making fake communistic "governments" and invading with military force to "liberate" em -- like it was tryed with Finland (and actually worked with other states, among which Ukraine).
That's why having fairly elected commies was an apparent threat -- Stalin could use em to make visibly legit fake government.
Well, AFAIK, they was rised on money from Stalin too... through COMINTERN.
Well, end of WW2 and A-bomb changed it yet one time.
And breakup of USSR... it seems... one time more.
While theme is still the same.
Like in Russia, Like in China.
So, "red scare" is not that shallow/narrow/dim of a ghosts.
More like it taking more and more flesh on its cursed bones.
\\Even if there were no communists, Hitler would have used Jews and minorities as targets of his scapegoating as "threats" to Germany.
Well, he used xenophobia that was already there. "Zionism" fear was already all around Europe (and guess who started to spread it? Hint, it starts with "R"). And often it coinsided with fear of communism/socialism/marxism. Not without truth behind it, as there was many jews among socialists and revolutioners.
\\One needn't be a Marxist to understand class warfare.
Still, that is false notion.
In our modern post-industrial times especially.
Trying to build something on a sand of false notions... is not good, no matter how good one's intention are. I can say it as destendant from a country built on such sand. To say the least... we still coughing it out. Today.
I admire your optimism and hope your are correct about better times to come.
It won't be easy. Younger people have my sympathy for what lies ahead for them. There are positive signs. Young people are more exposed to different people, experiences and ideas today. And they are less racist.
The class warfare Buffet refers to is framed in his statement that he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.
The rich reap many more benefits from our system and government than the rest of us. Their Republican Party want to take away our social safety nets like Social Security for retirement and Medicare for seniors. These are the provision for the general welfare under our Constitution.
As with taxes and regulation of commerce, the economic elites are very greedy and feel entitled to suppress our Constitutional rule of law.
Trump sees himself above the law. He's not that different from a lot of them, who feel very entitled to their exclusive privileges.
The wealthy are less likely to be convicted of crimes and get off with lighter sentences if they are convicted.
As I noted, the wealthy are far more represented and influential in government than the majority. Republicans are suppressing voter rights across the country, especially in Black districts.
In WWII German prisoners of war were treated better than American Blacks, even the ones who went to war to fight Nazis. Nazi prisoners were allowed to ride in "whites only" train cars, eat in restaurants and go to theatres that banned Blacks, who still had to fight for the right to vote and be free of racist oppression.
There is still no equal justice under law, or fairness in the economy.
It's not as bad as a hundred years ago, but inequality and upper class privilege still plague us.
Corporate control of healthcare, (as in denial of it) and inflated cost of medicine are two examples.
They get away with charging more for meds here than in any other country, because they pull the strings of government. People die because they can't afford meds and healthcare.
Racial injustice and class warfare are still real and the effects can be deadly.
\\I admire your optimism and hope your are correct about better times to come.
That is different from optimism.
That is much closer to "do or die", under current circumstances.
For Ukraine.
But for all other World too, I feel.
\\The rich reap many more benefits from our system and government than the rest of us.
Only, world in which rich reap no benefits... is much much worse.
You know, like with that saying about Democracy -- that its a worst kind of government... ONLY, all others are much worse.
\\As with taxes and regulation of commerce, the economic elites are very greedy and feel entitled to suppress our Constitutional rule of law.
Well, they will not recieve wellfare if gone bankrupt.
\\There is still no equal justice under law, or fairness in the economy.
That later, I do not quite understand meaning of it. Can you elaborate?
\\Racial injustice and class warfare are still real and the effects can be deadly.
Hmm... I think inhabitants of Africa, Brazilian favels and dirtiest parts of Asia would agree with you on that... only, I fear they would count you in one bunch with them, at whom you pointing.
“But for all other World too, I feel.”
The world is getting smaller. We will all feel the effects of global warming and the serious food shortages, disruptions in our societies. Ukraine has Putin to blame for their situation, but much of the world feels it in global inflation and food and energy shortages. What will be the consequences of mass migration due to rising oceans and temperatures? I’m afraid we might find out sooner rather than later.
“Democracy -- that its a worst kind of government... ONLY, all others are much worse.”
I think Churchill first sad this. We have a political party dedicated to dismantling democracy by voter suppression and election denial.
“Well, they will not recieve wellfare if gone bankrupt.”
A family that is bankrupted by medical costs will never recover like a billionaire who files for bankruptcy.
I don’t know of any billionaire who lives in poverty after bankruptcy.
Trump’s companies have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection 6 times, which means a company can remain in business while wiping away many of its debts. The bankruptcy court ultimately approves a corporate budget and a plan to repay remaining debts; often shareholders lose much of their equity.
And yes, if he was completely broke, he would still be entitled to welfare and Social Security. He would always have his cult to send him money. He’s asking for donations to pay lawyers for his upcoming criminal cases.
no equal justice under law, or fairness in the economy.
“That later, I do not quite understand meaning of it. Can you elaborate?”
Corporations and the rich have bought enough politicians to assure they pay lower income tax rates than the middle class. They enjoy tax breaks and government subsidies for their businesses and have the best lawyers finding ways to get out of paying taxes.
For two years I paid more income tax than Trump. In 2016, Trump paid only $750 in federal income tax, and in 2017, he paid another $750 in federal income tax.
Then there is our minimum pay rate. The federal minimum of $7.25 per hour has been in effect for 13 years. Republicans would have the minimum wage eliminated entirely.
Racial injustice and class warfare are still real and the effects can be deadly.
“I think inhabitants of Africa, Brazilian favels and dirtiest parts of Asia would agree with you on that... only, I fear they would count you in one bunch with them, at whom you pointing.”
Systemic Racism: policies and practices that exist throughout a whole society or organization, and that result in and support a continued unfair advantage to some people and unfair or harmful treatment of others based on race
The Republican Right denies the existence of systemic racism and have banned the teaching of the history of slavery and racism. They also like to burn books by people they hate. Sound familiar?
Unlike many other countries, healthcare is NOT a right in the US. People suffer and die because they cannot afford preventive treatment and preventive care. Black people suffer more due to our history of systemic racism and class warfare that opposes the right to healthcare.
Covid death rates among the poor and Blacks show this to be true.
\\Ukraine has Putin to blame for their situation, but much of the world feels it in global inflation and food and energy shortages.
Of which Putin is the main culprit.
\\“Democracy -- that its a worst kind of government... ONLY, all others are much worse.”
I think Churchill first sad this. We have a political party dedicated to dismantling democracy by voter suppression and election denial.
I cannot say neither positive nor negative opinion about it. As that is strictly your inner political affairs. Commenting it would be unwise, and counter-productive -- twice as that because I would not like such a comments about my dear Ukraine inner struggles.
Like that recent report from Amnesty International.
\\I don’t know of any billionaire who lives in poverty after bankruptcy.
Khm? There's not so many billionaires.
But, what about mere millioneires? Some little business owners? Members of their families? Mere workers?
Well, modern society much more forgiving. We do not throw debters in a pit any more. There is proper procedure of bankruptsy. Still, I myself do not see path of billioneire that easy and pleasant. From what I know -- that is like riding a bike (you go while you pedaling) than regular bus most of us commoners used to.
\\often shareholders lose much of their equity.
Well, that is what risk of being shareholder is about, isn't it?
\\Corporations and the rich have bought enough politicians to assure they pay lower income tax rates than the middle class. They enjoy tax breaks and government subsidies for their businesses and have the best lawyers finding ways to get out of paying taxes.
Well, but do you know what they paying taxes from?
Corporation -- it's a virtual entity. That's it, it cannot have own property or wealth. It is like a "slave" in that account. That is what your, western economic science do say. And within that framwork -- legal framework of doing business, developed through great struggles through history. That developed of two-side ladger, as in accounting -- one side for assets, one side for debts.
Corporation can have assets -- but only that, that was payed for from "debt" side. And that "debt" given to it by owners/shareholders as initial or extended capital and investments.
And, through its chief staff and mere workers, using it to produce some goods and realising it commercially. For a good price. To increase sum of assets.
Common sense idea -- sum of assets must ever grow bigger and bigger >> than sum of "debt".
Where is place of taxes in that schema? That is question to you.
If you don't mind it to answer. That simple question.
\\The Republican Right denies the existence of systemic racism and have banned the teaching of the history of slavery and racism. They also like to burn books by people they hate. Sound familiar?
Burning books? That is exactly that minor "resembnlance" I was taling about.
That can be a distraction/diversion/twisting the truth -- that they was buring people, actually.
Foreigner,
“Corporation -- it's a virtual entity. That's it, it cannot have own property or wealth... Corporation can have assets”
So yes. They do have property and wealth as assets. More than that, corporations have been given the rights of legal personhood by our courts. They are entitled to the protections of our laws, our military, our police, and use of our roads, courts, public services, natural resources, and yes, bankruptcy that eliminates their debts.
They just don’t want to pay taxes for it like the rest of us have to do.
This gives them all the privileges of being a citizen with none of the responsibilities.
”Where is place of taxes in that schema?”
Taxes and regulation of commerce are in our Constitution.
But the wealthy and their corporations resent having to pay taxes for the same rights, protections, and privileges that real human beings pay for. There is no acceptable justification for large corporations, billionaires and Donald Trump to pay less taxes than I do. Especially when they use their wealth to buy politicians to enact laws that their corporate lawyers write. Corporations also have been using their organizations to select our judges, all the way up to our Supreme Court. The “Federalist Society” has essentially chosen the last three Supreme Court Justices appointed by the Criminal President.
That is not democracy. It is corporatocracy This is how large corporations go years without paying a dollar in federal taxes. This is why I pay more income tax in 2017 and 2018 than our Criminal President did. He paid only $750 for those years.
“Burning books? That is exactly that minor "resemblance" I was talking about.”
Yes, it is one minor resemblance, but there are a disturbing number of other resemblances between our radical Right and fascists.
As I noted, the lies, anger, hate, scapegoating, racist white supremacy, a violent insurrection (Putsch), and efforts to dismantle our voting rights and elections add up to quite a number of similarities.
I’ve never said our Republicans are Nazis, but their shared elements of racism and fascist authoritarianism are real.
The Nazis didn’t begin with burning people in concentration camps and starting a war, but with lies, racist hate and a Putsch.
There is a dark, selfish, hateful, authoritarian side of human nature in many of those who are trying to rule over the rest of us.
This is unfortunately true around the world.
I’m sure I don’t have to remind you of this sad and tragic fact.
\\“Corporation -- it's a virtual entity. That's it, it cannot have own property or wealth... Corporation can have assets”
\\
\\So yes.
Sorry for pointing it out, Dave.
But is this what you call proper quote?
Here, where you cherrypicked "Corporation can have assets". While full and correct was totally opposite claim "Corporation can have assets -- but only as a debt".
Was I not clear with formulating my statements?
I do not want to believe that you use such a lowbraw treaks consciously. Deliberately?
\\They just don’t want to pay taxes for it like the rest of us have to do.
Logically... slaves cannot pay taxes. Because they have nothing what they own.
\\More than that, corporations have been given the rights of legal personhood by our courts.
The same was with a human slaves too.
Limited personhood.
\\”Where is place of taxes in that schema?”
\\
\\Taxes and regulation of commerce are in our Constitution.
Was I that bad with formulation of my statements?
Of course, word "schema" was about inner structure of a firm/company/corporation -- which need to use assets and investments (and human capital too) effectively -- means, sum of money recieved from selling produced goods --- must be ever bigger than expenses. Because of obvious reason (the same reason as in agriculture, where we expect that each grain of wheat or corn must give us dozen of new ones, after being planted and harvested)
Yet one time -- what do taxes to that "sum of money recieved from selling produced goods"?
How it look if we'd apply it to agriculture, again?
\\I’m sure I don’t have to remind you of this sad and tragic fact.
Naturally.
But I have no such freedom to call any political representatives of your people "nazis" or "commies".
Nothing good would come of it.
"Corporation -- it's a virtual entity. That's it, it cannot have own property or wealth... Corporation can have assets”
This seemed like a contradiction. Corporations own property and wealth as assets.
You're right about nothing good coming from calling representatives Nazis or communists.
I have never known of a democrat representative or president calling a republican a Nazi.
Democrats are being called communists more than ever.
Red baiting and other accusations of being a communist has been a conservative method of demeaning Democrats for decades. It angers and instills fear and hatred in their voters.
This is my point. It is a fascist tactic.
\\This seemed like a contradiction. Corporations own property and wealth as assets.
Not by themself, but as a proxy.
Like that historical slaves -- they could be bestowed with some tools, wear some cloth, even some jewels, but... they was not owners of it. Means, they cannot do with it whatever they like. Same as corporaton that rised some investments -- cannot waste it on some luxury retreat for its workers. While people, individuals, most of the time do just that -- wasting money on something that do not generate returns. Because they are self-governing entities. Owners.
And what about that question about taxes?
Is it that big a problem to admit -- that taxes lowering profit, and lower profit means less able to compete business. So. If whole economy suffer from taxes that are bigger than in other countries -- that WHOLE country became poorer and poorer.(because there is no and was no government which would spend money wisely)
That makes question of taxes not that easy and simple at all.
Like "make em pay, those nasty burguis".
\\Red baiting and other accusations of being a communist has been a conservative method of demeaning Democrats for decades. It angers and instills fear and hatred in their voters.
Still... I do not understand why???
Why Reps see something bad in being "commie" (apart from historical reasons... but that reasons cannot last forever)?
Why Dems so ashamed being called "commies"?
There must be something deeper behind that swearing.
Foreigner,
I wasn't trying to twist any of your words. You probably understand economics more than I do.
I read "scheme" instead of "schema" in your question. Sorry I missed it. I suppose in that sense, taxes would be the opposite of assets, as in liability or overhead?
I don't understand what you mean that corporations cannot own property or wealth.
I think "artificial" would describe corporations better than "virtual". Corporations are physically and legally real entities.
Virtual: being such in essence or effect though not formally recognized or admitted
Artificial:humanly contrived, having existence in legal, economic, or political theory
Big Lie: a deliberate gross distortion of the truth used especially as a propaganda tactic.
This tactic was originated by Nazis and has been used by other authoritarians and tyrants.
Hitler’s big lie was propaganda designed to blame European Jews for Germany’s defeat in World War I and to frame them as inferiors and traitors.
George Bush and Dick Cheney used their big lie about Saddam being allied with al-Qaeda and having nuclear/biological/chemical weapons programs.
Trump’s big lie is he won the 2020 election.
Putin’s big lie is Ukraine is run by Nazis.
All of these lies have resulted in human deaths and destruction of truth and democracy.
The big lie is at the essence of dictatorships, fascism and and other authoritarian powers.
There is no dishonesty in making these very real comparisons.The comparisons I make are reality based. Please note the difference between compare and equate:
Compare: to estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between.
Equate: consider (one thing) to be the same as or equivalent to another.
"To compare (Putin/Hitler Trump/Hitler Trumpists/Nazis) is not the same as to say they are equal", argues historian Heinrich August Winkler in Die Zeit.
https://twitter.com/zeitonline/status/1502622371366244354
"Commie" is their code word for traitor. Democrats are capitalists, and have no communist ideology. This makes their demonization another "big lie". Many of their voter believe that lie, just as they believe Trump's big lie about the election being "stolen" from him.
It is dangerous, destructive and deadly. The radical Right will manufacture and promote lies, fear, hatred, and anger to get votes. It works.
It's just like Putin calling your people Nazis. You are correct. No good comes from falsely calling anyone Nazis or communists.
Taxes do not just lower profits. They are investments in the public's Constitutional general welfare, that also benefit corporations, as I noted above. Corporate PR will never admit this. It profits them more to complain about being "victims". HA. They OWN the Republican Party, and much of the Democratic Party. So much for dems being "commies".
If they have the legal rights of a person, they should have the responsibilities of a person. If they benefit from our courts, the law, police and fire protections, public roads and services, etc, why shouldn't they be taxed like the rest of us?
Corporations thrived in the days of higher taxes. The middle class grew in the days of higher taxes. Public services expanded in the days of higher taxes. The rich got richer, even in the days of higher taxes.
In 1927 in the court case of Compañía General de Tabacos de Filipinas v. Collector of Internal Revenue a dissenting opinion was written by Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."
The great majority of Americans want the rich and corporations to "Pay their fair share".
But the rich and corporations have the money to legally bribe and control the politicians.
I see no way how that benefits our country and people.
\\I read "scheme" instead of "schema" in your question. Sorry I missed it. I suppose in that sense, taxes would be the opposite of assets, as in liability or overhead?
I am interested in many things. Especially that, which was not accessible, not allowed un USSR. So when breakup of it happened, and such information became more available, I tryed to enlight myself about how our "counterparts" do their economy (in USSR only one western economy book was allowed -- Marx's Capital, but even that was greatly obfuscated).
So, things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debits_and_credits
or
Debits VS Credits: A Simple, Visual Guide - Bench Accounting
bench.co › blog › bookkeeping › debits-credits
29 черв. 2021 р. · In a nutshell: debits (dr) record all of the money flowing into an account, while credits (cr) record all of the money flowing out of an account ...
So, as this breaf explanation suggests -- taxes that is something like additional expenses. Decrease amount of "all of the money". Able to decrease capital even. Shortening the profit. And as corporation is not a living being. It do not have much immunity to such a shortage.
And bankruptsy that is thing that is bad not only for a wealthy man --owner, but for emploees too. To a greater extent even.
\\I don't understand what you mean that corporations cannot own property or wealth.
I tryed to quick-google it. But it not showed easily. As that thing higher
Well, that is some concept I read from that western economy books.
I remember it because it really easy to understand. To visualise.
What is corporation.
\\Hitler’s big lie was propaganda designed to blame European Jews for Germany’s defeat in World War I and to frame them as inferiors and traitors.
Well, that was not his lie. So, I can give him benefit of a doubt, that he was honestly deluded on that account.
That was war-time propaganda, concockted by Russian Empire secret services, and spreaded in Europe, with goal to disrupt it from within.
But as hand of the dead device it blowed much after autor of it died.
\\George Bush and Dick Cheney used their big lie about Saddam being allied with al-Qaeda and having nuclear/biological/chemical weapons programs.
Here. I can be sad only about one thing. That same was not done to Assad too.
That lie would be needed to do a right thing. :-(((
Who knows... maybe Putin would not be so cocky if it be so. Xi would think twice, before waging with WW3 war cryes.
\\There is no dishonesty in making these very real comparisons.The comparisons I make are reality based. Please note the difference between compare and equate:
I have no problems what so ever with such approach.
Sorry if my far from perfect writing skills made it look like it.
My idea is overly pragmatical.
Means, to every move to look at what results it ends with.
And about using words like "nazi", "fascist" and etc, I see that unsettling results -- that nazis and fascists, not in name but from their deeds, use that words to smear their opponents and to mud the whater, to thrug off imminent consequencies of being seen as nazi/fascist.
That's why Trump using simplified lexic. As in 1984 by Orwel. The more simple the language, the easier to corrupt it.
\\"Commie" is their code word for traitor.
Oh, that is very interesting.
Can you give some more info about when and how it became that way?
From time of Maccartism?
But why it not dissolved with time?
\\ Many of their voter believe that lie, just as they believe Trump's big lie about the election being "stolen" from him.
Oh, I know that technology very well. As it was tryed here, in Ukraine.
And by that same people -- political consultants and ideologoues of your Right. Like Manafort.
When during our 2004 election struggles, end then on the next prezident election in 2010, which gave us that traitor Yanukovich, who (tryed to) sell us to Putin.
Where they pushed message "no mater if there not enough votes for a certain candidate, because that votes is from better, more important people, that candidate MUST win no matter what".
\\If they have the legal rights of a person, they should have the responsibilities of a person. If they benefit from our courts, the law, police and fire protections, public roads and services, etc, why shouldn't they be taxed like the rest of us?
Why not tax owners/shareholders directly?
\\The great majority of Americans want the rich and corporations to "Pay their fair share".
\\But the rich and corporations have the money to legally bribe and control the politicians.
Well, that is your inner political questions.
Have not much to say 'bout it.
I beg myself a pardon in advance.
If that topic is uninteresting or something to you.
But we had have civil discussion so far.
Related to it. And that qyestion is still intriguing to me.
So, if you'd not like it, you can just not disclose this comment.
And will know, and will not rise this question again.
Thing is... that is question that boggles my mind from long ago -- about nature of so-called "communism".
Not as it was advertised and posed in propaganda in Soviet Union.
But real deal "communism".
And, in my opinion, but not only my, though still I do not see it as wide spread.
Communism is nothing but thoroughly obfuscated with all means available and even possible... of nothing else as State Capitalism.
That is when state itself becomes biggest, and most surely the only one burgious/capitalist.
When laws of a state become indistinguishable from inner instruction of a company.
And citizens reduced in impotance to a mere workforce. With their human rights stripped, if needed.
So, what do you think? Can it be, that Dems being called "commies".
Because other party see, and say, even if subliminal (well, they do not want a notion that Capitalism is somehow bad to be wide spread too, anyhow) them as proponents of State Capitalism?
(forgive me this one, treat it as hipotetical)
Because Dems ARE proponents of State Capitalism? At least to some degree?
Foreigner,
I never read Das Kapital or the Communist Manifesto, but I do get the general ideas of class conflict, alienation, labor theory of value, and the ideal of a class-free society. Somehow the ideal of “dictatorship of the proletariat” always results in a dictatorship by an authoritarian leader. The ideal of government ownership without private ownership has never been successfully practiced in a free society. Democratic representation and the public good are suppressed under both communism and un-regulated or inadequately regulated capitalism.
Yes, the government becomes the capitalist class in communism, and is government capitalism. The Chinese govt. is ironically a massive capitalistic entity.
In capitalist countries the capitalist class tries to own the government, and is quite successful in manipulating the levers of power by legal bribery and massive lobbying. It becomes corporate/capitalist government, to the benefit of corporations only.
Wealth is power, whether by government owned corporations or corporate owned government. It seems the little guy gets screwed both ways.
These two extremes need a more moderate balance. There is a middle path. Democratic socialism seems to work best for the health, happiness, representation, and general welfare of the people.
Our Republican Party is 100% in service to the corporate/economic elites.
Anyone who advocates for public healthcare public education, and government benefits like Social Security, Medicare and unemployment benefits will eventually be called a socialist/communist by the radical Right Republicans. They vehemently oppose all of these public services, while legislating tax breaks, incentives, bailouts, and other support for corporations.
The Democratic Party is more diverse, racially, socially and economically, but still reliant on corporate donations. Nothing communist about them. They have a small minority of socialist inclined members, but they haven’t enough numbers to make a difference towards universal healthcare and public education, etc.
By nature, the extremes of government-owned corporations (communism) and corporate owned government (un-regulated capitalism) overrule the interests and well-being of the general public.
This is why democratic socialism is gaining support among our younger people. The Right will always dishonestly present a communist dictatorship and democratic socialism as the same thing. The differences are unclear to most people.
My view is that government and business (corporations) need to be entirely separate. The same is true for religion and government.
Our Constitution was written by men who understood the necessity of these separations, and that the government most not promote any religion, and must have power to tax and regulate corporate entities.
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America...The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;... To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States... no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
The First Amendment reads:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
These provisions of our Constitution are why I call myself an “old-fashioned American”. Today’s radical Right would call our founders “socialists” or “communists” for their Enlightenment ideas.
\\These two extremes need a more moderate balance.
As far as I know -- there is only one way of going middle way, and that's exactly when TWO opposite extrimes which fight with each other present.
That is called homeostasis -- thing because of which we are, as well as all and any animals do exist.
In our technologies it called feedback loops.
\\The Democratic Party is more diverse, racially, socially and economically, but still reliant on corporate donations. Nothing communist about them.
Ehm. Communistic party in Russian Empire... was donated by capitalists.
Well, some of them.
All people is different. And well, there is a benefit in having your own political force/party.
And there was enough reformists among capitalists too. Even with socialistic views, which was in fasion that days.
\\The Right will always dishonestly present a communist dictatorship and democratic socialism as the same thing. The differences are unclear to most people.
Don't think I can be called Right in your terms.
But really, I don't think I can see that difference too.
They, in Soviet Union was calling themself Democratic and by all means Socialistic.
ONLY difference I can come up with -- they didn't have Rights... because they was thoroughly erradicated in 1917's "revolution".
Guess, that could give some insight about your country problems.
But still, it's up to you to decide...
Thank you for conversation. I guess you gave my some food for thought.
I need to think about it.
Foreigner,
I also thank you for the rational conversation.
The Right will always dishonestly present a communist dictatorship and democratic socialism as the same thing. The differences are unclear to most people.
To clarify these concepts, I would suggest the differences between North Korea and Sweden, or between Red China and Finland.
Economic and politically loaded terms like Communism, Socialism and Capitalism are easy to warp and confuse, due to the diverse expressions/systems that operate under them.
Likewise are Democracy and Republic. The terms can be facades. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is neither a democracy nor a republic.
Elections don't necessarily make a democracy or a republic, as much as the degree the common people are represented.
It is best to define these terms for context before entering debate or discussion with them.
\\Foreigner,
I also thank you for the rational conversation.
Sorry for pointing it out. But it sounds somewhat insulting.
Rational human tend to behave rationally all of the time.
While asking irrational to behave rational is futile.
I do not criticise you here. I fully understand what you do say.
Only, in one package with rationality there is pedantism too. ;-)
\\To clarify these concepts, I would suggest the differences between North Korea and Sweden,
North and South Korea -- is better for comparation.
Obviously, country that was conqured by two communistic behemoths (USSR and China) have slim chance of trying to be democratic...
\\ or between Red China and Finland.
This two are starkly incomparable IMHO.
\\Economic and politically loaded terms like Communism, Socialism and Capitalism are easy to warp and confuse, due to the diverse expressions/systems that operate under them.
Well, "communism" that is termin which describe something unexisting, and even impossible.
Socialism... yeah, you are right about it. I cannot see how my experience of USSR, where they was calling it "socialism" or even "advanced socialism", can be merged, or even compared with european socialism, of that how it seen in USA.
Capitalism -- isn't it about mercantilism, buying and selling goods?
\\The terms can be facades. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is neither a democracy nor a republic.
That is point of dirupture.
Why they use that names, if they not one?
Why they have and use institutions of democracy and republic governance?
How than, we can distinguish "true" from "false",
if there is continuity of it -- countries with all the same institutions, but different attitude and assessment of what democratic and what not?
Well, that is mostly rethorical question.
I am not waiting you to answer.
But still, if you'd have some insights about it, I would like to know...
\\It is best to define these terms for context before entering debate or discussion with them.
It's good to have proper formal definitions.
But people was able to discuss complex things way before they developed undestanding of axiomatisation.
With simple "look here".
That's why my experience of USSR is so good to compare with realities of West. IMHO.
Foreigner,
or between Red China and Finland. This two are starkly incomparable IMHO.
Exactly. But in the US the radical Right will portray democratic socialism as communism. They have learned fear is a useful means to get votes and a lever of power. They refuse to examine the real differences because ignorance is their political ally. Racism is another example.
Capitalism -- isn't it about mercantilism, buying and selling goods?
Yes. But capitalism has evolved into corporatism, to the point of “corporatocracy” where corporate wealth can buy politicians and corporate lawyers can actually write the laws. Private wealth is always represented more than the public good.
Why they use that names, if they not one?
Why they have and use institutions of democracy and republic governance?
How than, we can distinguish "true" from "false",
if there is continuity of it -- countries with all the same institutions, but different attitude and assessment of what democratic and what not?
Yes democracy is a continuum of pure democracy, universal citizen participation, voting, elections and representation rather than an absolute closed system. It’s meaning, like with so many other terms, becomes flexible.
“Democracy” is a useful term for authoritarian regimes to give the illusion of respecting the will and needs of the people. The same applies to governments dominated by corporate interests.
But people was able to discuss complex things way before they developed undestanding of axiomatisation.
With simple "look here".
True. People don’t need to understand the nuances of fascism or communism when confronted by the imminent reality of a dictatorship.
Capitalism -- isn't it about mercantilism, buying and selling goods?
Yes. But capitalism has evolved into corporatism, to the point of “corporatocracy” where corporate wealth can buy politicians and corporate lawyers can actually write the laws. Private wealth is always represented more than the public good.
Sorry to say. I cannot thrug it off. This words too much remind me of that non-stopping buzz they was repeating ad nauseam to us in USSR...
about capitalism becoming imperialism
not working in public good interests
governments all bought by corporations
and etc, and etc, and etc.
So, you might understand yourself -- it's too hard for me to believe, that way,
that what? propaganda in USSR was RIGHT about capitalism???
While being
. absolutely
. humongously
. rediculously
wrong about EVERY other thing.
I hope I formulated my confusion properly and easy to understand.
Because that is genuine. My confusion.
Foreigner,
A communist dictatorship will attack capitalism by focusing on its worst effects, ignoring any positive benefits. A communist government will also hypocritically engage in its own form of capitalism's cruelty, with their own slave labor or otherwise low pay in factories and farms.
Capitalism is an amoral system. It has no compassion or regard for the public welfare. It serves to generate profit. Yes, profit can pay good wages for some workers. Other times profit come at the expense of cruel working conditions and environmental pollution.
Capitalism is a "double-edged sword" in many ways.
At the time of Marx's Manifesto capitalism was still embracing slavery for private profit. The Industrial Revolution would exploit child labor. Huge monopolies would empower a wealthy elite that would dominate news media and politics, which is still happening.
Unregulated capitalism would be threatened by expanded democracy and voter rights.
Unregulated capitalism proved to be quite monstrous in many ways. As I noted, it grew into what we now call corporatism.
Our founders understood government should not be controlled by the influence of commercial business interests and religious movements. They knew a republic needed a government above the influence of money and religion.
Commerce needs to be regulated. Religion needs to be separated from the people's government.
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;... To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States..."
And: "No religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”
The First Amendment reads:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".
Religious groups and capitalists will always try to control government to their advantage.
The US is paying dearly for not taxing churches, who are supposed to stay out of politics.
The Republican Party has essentially required a religious test for judges. This is how we have a Catholic majority in our Supreme Court, and women are now losing their right to reproductive freedom.
Our nation's founders gave us the rule of law that deterred the power of commercial and religious interests in our government.
But it's been a long struggle, with frequent victories for Big Money and Big Religion.
\\A communist dictatorship will attack capitalism by focusing on its worst effects, ignoring any positive benefits.
Hey! Can you play an advocate here and describe those benefits? ;-)
\\A communist government will also hypocritically engage in its own form of capitalism's cruelty, with their own slave labor or otherwise low pay in factories and farms.
Oh, I am more than proficient to know about that cruelty, can you believe me?
And that was not about "slave labor or otherwise low pay". Not much or even any bigger than it was on the West. That is prejudges from your Westerner side.
Main problem was -- lose of purpose. Life and mind draining stupidity and boredom.
Naturally, you hardly can emphatise with it. I myself cannot find an example from what I know about your life (from Holywood movies mostly), to show it to you...
Maybe some movies, of anti-utopian type.
\\Huge monopolies would empower a wealthy elite that would dominate news media and politics, which is still happening.
Oh, now it much more thorough. Through making cosy "echo chambers" with the means of social networks.
For example.
You are one of few, who allow anonimouses to talk in your blog. And even have mind open enough to engage in conversation with such notorius strangers.
Most of people -- do not like it. They like their family-sized group. Airtight. Which are most vulnerable to a propaganda. Trump-like. Or Putin-like. Or China's one, I suppose.
That is social problem, in my opinion. And not of economic system or political affairs.
\\The US is paying dearly for not taxing churches, who are supposed to stay out of politics.
Well, I thought that that is mere common sense. Churches are not for-profit organisations. Per se.
Or, do you propose to tax NGOs??? Scout's organisations? House parties? :-)
\\But it's been a long struggle, with frequent victories for Big Money and Big Religion.
I would add to that Big Future.
Because things like flying cars, robots, settlers on the Moon amd Mars...
hardly your founders could even imagine something like that...
yet to write a law suffice for that development.
Foreigner,
Capitalism isn’t all bad, especially if regulated and allows for workers’ decent pay, benefits, rights and safety. “Regulation of commerce” is the law of the land, and it has been a long struggle to maintain.
A balanced state will have socialized public healthcare and education. Capitalists hate that.
Compared to the old days of “Robber Barons” people have had good paying jobs, and thanks to unions, even retirement benefits from them. Those days are receding into the past now. One political party has been actively destroying labor unions. The Republican Party works for the enrichment of economic elites over the public good.
You have a good point on “mind draining boredom” in so many jobs. Industrial automation and “outsourcing” to countries with lower pay for workers have eliminated many of those jobs.
When I was young, I experienced repetitive and dangerous physical labor, and learned it wasn’t for me. I was lucky to find, and survive, a job with retirement benefits.
We have Social Security and Medicare as a govt. retirement benefits that people pay into over their working years. The Republican Party wants to dismantle these constitutional provisions for the general welfare.
The Republican Party needs to appeal to racial resentments, anger, and fear in white working people to get their votes. An old and successful tactic. The have built a massive media echo-chamber to spread their propaganda.
There was a time when churches were non-profit. Many still are, but in the past few decades we’ve seen the rise of TV ministries and “Mega churches” that have become very successful profit-driven enterprises. We have a cult called “Scientology” started by a man who said the best way to get rich is to start a religion.
We also have many churches that are politically active, and are pushing their religious beliefs into our laws. If so, they should be taxed as political and business organizations.
You make a good point about so many laws are antiquated and not sensible for modern times.
And yes, I welcome discussion from anyone who is decent about it. I have no reason to publish the hate and lies from certain trolls, who think it’s OK to call me a commie or racist because that’s what their radical Right leaders tell them to think.
If some politely disagrees with what I say, and they show reason or evidence to support their points, I will be happy to discuss it with them. Too often they just resort to mindless insults.
I delete a lot of their bullshit personal attacks.
If they had used pointed red hoods with MAGA stamps their intent and viewpoints wouldn’t have been clearer.
Hill,
It is a fact that the letters in hatred are all in red hat.
Thank you for your thorough comments.
I think we closed it here, only if you'd like to ask me some questions.
Hope we'd have good time of civil conversations about complex matters in future too.
Post a Comment