If you would forgive my little narrative of a petty blog drama, I'd like to share some words from two of my harshest critics.
These two particular bloggers recently joined forces to attack me. Due to being banned at both of their blogs, I had no ability to respond, So I'll just submit my defense here.
What terms describe people who would dishonestly attack a person, while denying him the opportunity to defend himself?
If that dishonesty conveys an outright falsehood, then “liar” might seem quite appropriate.
Perhaps “coward” would also apply in that situation?
From Dictionary.com: “a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.”
Last month one my “fans” named Jerry dedicated a post to demean me as a “wacko” for noting the similarities in the rise of German Nazis to the rise of radical Right Trumpism in the US. Readers may remember his profound annoyance with me in previous comment threads at: "Dare I Compare" and "Racist Projection".
Holocaust survivors agree with my comparison, and I posted a list of them saying so. Will Jerry call them the “wacko left”?
He simply refused to acknowledge them and fled from the discussion.
What is he afraid of?
Definitions of words might be high on the list.
I tried to explain to him:
“Nobody is EQUATING Trump to Hitler, or the Republican Party to Hitler's Nazi Party.
Compare: to estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between.
Equate:
consider (one thing) to be the same as or equivalent to another.
Words have meanings.”
Jerry refused to acknowledge these distinctions and definitions.
This all goes back to when I requested facts to support his claim that I was wrong about Hitler's Brownshirts.
Jerry claimed: “Hitler and his brown shirts beat, imprisoned, and murdered top government officials and elected German representatives before and after he was given the leadership off Germany.”
Multiple times I asked him for evidence of his claim. “Recheck your history” was his response. He refused to cite evidence and doubled down, saying I was wrong and motivated by “hate”.
Of course he failed to name ONE of those “imprisoned, and murdered top government official”.
He had nothing. He became angry, and accused me of “many falsehoods”. So how many facts did he share to support his accusation? Zero.
Well, ol’ Jer still can’t get me out of his head.
Here is his diatribe from Monday, January 31, 2022:
~~~
The wacko left loves to compare Trump to Hitler. So, I asked them where are the Trump concentration camps? Did Trump murder millions of Muslims? Did Trump bomb, or invade other countries and murder their citizens? Did Trump kill people in the millions? Did Trump murder his political opponents? Did he murder teachers, homosexuals, artists, news people, or others he felt were his enemies. The answer is obviously NO. But by my saying they were falsely accusing Trump of being a Hitler I was branded a pedophile and told by a supposed Buddhist I was full of shit.
Well watch the news Hitler lovers. If you want to compare anyone to Hitler it is Putin. He is about to invade another country with real bullets and real innocent people are going to die. What will he do to those he considers enemies of his government? We know what he has done to Russia. We know he has killed reporters. We know he already has concentration camps.
So save your Hitler
comparisons for those who are real evil, or prove to me Trump did any of the
evils I listed in my first paragraph.
Did Jerry call me a “Hitler lover”? It seems so.
Wait a minute. If I’m a “Hitler lover”, wouldn’t that make me a Trump lover as well? Only Jerry knows for sure.
Our old buddy Darrell joined in, as they commiserated in their shared victimhood.
Darrell:
As for people such as our old friend that we both have "sanctioned"
he continues to compare Trump to Hitler. The irony that his beloved leftists
are the ones that are coercing behaviors, censoring unapproved speech, and
seeking ways to disenfranchise those with whom they disagree is evidently lost
on his Kool-aide addled mind.
Jerry:
By the way, it was our long-winded friend who called me a pedophile for
denouncing his Trump is Hitler comparisons.
It appears Trump isn’t the only victim of my vicious libel. ( I never said, "Trump is Hitler".) Jerry’s delicate sensibilities somehow perceived I branded him a “pedophile”, in addition to “falsely accusing Trump of being a Hitler”.
As any decent person would do, you’re probably wondering why I would brand poor Jerry a pedophile.
I didn’t.
I used that as a hypothetical example of accusations without evidence.
I told him by his standards of leveling accusations without evidence, I could say he is a pedophile and not show any facts to support the claim. He took it personally.
I tried to explain:
“I'll have to trust you are not a pedophile, because I have seen no evidence or indication of your pedophilia. Is this reasonable?”
Apparently it was not reasonable to him. He’s like a delicate snowflake that way.
Jerry demanded: "...now show me where the Republican party, or Trump emulated that behavior."
So I did:
“I already showed you, Jerry. Demonizing the opposition as communists, fueling bigotry and racism, embracing white nationalism, scapegoating minorities, the Big Lie, staging a Putsch, etc.
I suppose that’s just what a Hitler lover would say, amirite?
Now let’s review the wild accusations from Jerry’s partner Darrell.
He had these words to say about me:
The left simply is about emphasizing hate, division, and destruction. They seemingly want nothing more than to destroy what they see as a racist, homophobic, sexist, xenophobic, and greedy nation.... The Left claims that they love America and are sometimes even comprised of “old fashioned Americans” and yet they find fatal flaws in our nation, its founding, and its governance. America is a racist, homophobic, sexist, xenophobic nation since its inception according to the left, and yet they still love it supposedly. ...Our resident leftist who is no longer welcome at this site, jubilantly suggested that I "was caught in a lie" regarding the Churchill meme. The hate-America Leftists these days evidently live constantly with their own lies all the time so that they assume everyone else does too.
Dare I mention these are the same kind of demonizing attacks Nazis would use against Jews, socialists, educators and journalists?
Maybe you've noted neither of these fellows would quote any of my words to justify their accusations. This turns out to be a feature, not a bug.
To Darrell’s credit, he did remove the quote he erroneously attributed to Churchill. Instead of thanking me for pointing out his mistake, he decided to smear me.
Goes to show how difficult life can be when you’re a “Hitler-loving, America-hating leftist who wants to destroy our nation”.
A discerning reader may wonder what rationale these fellows have for their fierce hatred for me.
Best I can tell is they deeply resent my requests for information that supports their accusations.
Poor Darrell was shocked into silence when I asked for evidence that Trump beat Biden. And his circuits were fried when I questioned his support for a man who praised his seditionist thugs by saying, “You’re special. We love you.”
Yup. If that doesn’t tell you I hate America, what will?
They
used to comment here, and both are still welcome to do so. Neither are particularly informed or brave enough to step up and face me on equal terms in evidence-based discussion.
~~~~~~~~
Update:
My clear-eyed critics are still going on about me at Darrell's recent post. Typically, none of them quoted any “lie”
from me. Name calling seems to be an entirely acceptable privilege, but only if you are sufficiently radical Right. And Jerry is still playing his imaginary victim card.
Rex said...
Hey Darrell and Jerry, Dave Dubya is whining about you too on his latest propaganda post.
Just the Facts aka Anonymous ("Dave is a racist commie") Vern said:
Dave has banned the posting of polls on his blog, lol. He is such an authoritarian.
Jerry said:
I did not read Dave's post, but anyone who calls people pedophiles should not be listened to. (See above.)
Darrell said:
I
could care less what Mr. Dubya ("leftist who hates America") has to say about me. His falsehoods and name
calling have long been an issue, hence his being banned here.
Posts
46 comments:
Dave so brave, so freedom loving he censors those he disagrees with...whiner.
In other news, Black History Month names Jussie Smollett as 2023 their chairperson.
Anonymous Vern's sheer stupidity, or more accurately his bald-faced lie, in saying I "censor" those who disagree proves his malignant dishonesty.
Did he even read all the words I quoted from my accusers?
THEY banned me, so the racist accuses me of "censoring" them. Figures.
Anonymous has ended his participation in this thread by his racist lie alone.
He accused me of being a "racist commie" at Darrell's blog, so of course he is Darrell's number one ally.
That also tells us a bit about what my cowardly snowflake critics find acceptable, amirite?
Perhaps he's resentful that I didn't include him with the other two accusers/critics?
That's OK. He's free to go whine where I'm the one being "censored".
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
After a 2.3 Billion dollar fine they should be the last company making and marketing experimental vaccines.
Woody,
I hope our Justice Department still has some integrity to keep watch on Pharma. Too bad they own so much of congress, like all the GOP and corpo-dems like Sinema.
They're finally catching up to the Oxy pushing Sacklers from Purdue.
Looking forward to the DOJ holding the Trump Cartel accountable as well.
The Pfizer developers of the vaccine were not part of the 2009 case you link to.
And the vaccine is now FDA approved and no longer experimental. It works and saves lives.
And in other pharmaceutical news, the American Medical Association has determined Ivermectin does NOT work.
====
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2789362?guestAccessKey=58760460-df0f-4790-9257-8f3682dca39b&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=021822
American Medical Association
Efficacy of Ivermectin Treatment on Disease Progression Among Adults With Mild to Moderate COVID-19 and Comorbidities
"Conclusions and Relevance In this randomized clinical trial of high-risk patients with mild to moderate COVID-19, ivermectin treatment during early illness did not prevent progression to severe disease. The study findings do not support the use of ivermectin for patients with COVID-19"
The results in India contradicts the AMA.
https://newsrescue.com/the-undeniable-ivermectin-miracle-indias-240m-populated-largest-state-uttar-pradesh-horowitz/
https://archive.thinkprogress.org/a-symbiotic-relationship-the-ama-and-the-for-profit-health-lobby-a98e7148ad1e/
The AMA is corrupted by money, big money so I do not put much value in what they say.
Woody,
I suggest you vet the source of your link. They contradict our election. It's a pro-Trump crap sheet.
"Our editorial board consists of full time and part time citizen journalists"
"Citizen journalists" = "TIME Admits 2020 US Election Was Rigged By “Well Funded Cabal” for Biden, Kamala Victory"
Back to reality:
~~~
https://www.newswise.com/factcheck/success-of-ivermectin-in-preventing-covid-19-in-india-has-not-been-proven/?article_id=761091
"Success of ivermectin in preventing COVID-19 in India has not been proven"
India stopped recommending the use of ivermectin for the management of the virus in September, citing a lack of scientific evidence of its benefits. Researchers at the Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR) did not find enough evidence for Ivermectin and Hydroxycholoquine as potential therapeutics targeted against COVID-19.
~~~
Anonymous Vern says I'm censoring you for disagreeing. Do you think you're being censored?
The AMA lobbies for doctors and their financial interests. We can disagree with their business interests and tactics.
The Journal of the American Medical Association is not as corruptible as business and lobbying can be. The JAMA is a peer-reviewed medical journal.
Good luck disagreeing with that. Their incidence of inaccuracy is rare, and they have retracted positions if shown to be flawed, false or dated. This is why peer review reflects a high standard.
I'd prefer not to follow links to un-vetted sources with right-wing fringe opinions, to articles unrelated to the point discussed.
If it's just about your distrust of medical and pharmaceutical corporations, I'm with you. I get it. No drug is 100% safe and medicine is not a perfect science. But remember, doctors, hospitals, and medicines save lives.
Whatever point you're trying to make, state it. No more wild goose chases into Trumpist garbage sites, please.
An actual properly designed clinical trial of Ivermectin in ~400 patients in Malaysia has shown there is no clinical effect:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2789362?guestAccessKey=58760460-df0f-4790-9257-8f3682dca39b&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=021822
And the whole rigged election thing is fascinating for the sheer number of Republicans elected in that same rigged election who think that their elections were perfectly valid.
Seriously, if the Democrats went to these massively extraordinary lengths to elect Biden and Harris, you would think that they'd be smart enough to make sure the Democrats had a solid Senate majority, rather than waiting to get a razor thin one from a special election in Georgia a month later???
Bruce,
Thank you. There you go using logic and reason regarding the election. Trumpism has destroyed logic and reasoning as much as truth. That is their way to power.
Disinformation has become a larger and more profitable industry than journalism.
Radical Right propaganda dominates political discourse, Lies, blame and hate are being spread faster than covid. Conspiracy theories are rampant. Millions believe Trump's Big Lie. Millions believe a vaccine is more lethal than a deadly disease. And Q-Anon still has legions of true believers.
Once truth is denied and smothered, the radical Right agendas gain traction.
Authoritarianism tends to be embraced by more confused, frightened and angry (mostly White) people.
And here we are...
I'll add some relevant thoughts by Psychotherapist and (Recovering) Lawyer Nick Carmody on this shortly.
Nick Carmody has some great insight into how the Right operates.
https://twitter.com/Nick_Carmody
==
https://twitter.com/Nick_Carmody/status/1495029441881202692
Thread of threads attached below: "The degree to which logic/judgment/reason has been hijacked by emotion/ego/identity.....is immeasurable. This country is deeply wounded. The causes of those wounds are complex, and multiple."
==
https://twitter.com/Nick_Carmody/status/1194586885219205121
When people no longer believe they can compete or “win” within the context of a specific “game”, they either choose to stop playing…..or in extreme cases, may even "up-end the game board" and scatter playing pieces everywhere. This is what the GOP is doing to democracy
https://twitter.com/Nick_Carmody/status/1385973251315097603
Since the Right no longer believes it can compete in a democratic process, this creates self-granted permission to win by “any means necessary” in the newly framed, zero-sum, fascism-vs-totalitarian world where the Right clearly feels more competent.
In my observation, people drawn to conservative ideology tend to have less cognitive flexibility, and struggle with or are less comfortable dealing with abstraction, nuance, "gray areas", or with grasping/accepting multiple complex explanations for a complicated problem.
In previous writings, I’ve described this predisposition to think in absolute, either/or terms as having a “binary orientation”.
People who possess a “binary orientation” often struggle or are uncomfortable w/abstraction, & will steam roll over nuance…if they recognize it at all. This is an important point in a global political climate that is trending towards fascism/tyranny.
People who are binary-oriented tend to see the world through the lens of polarity (polarization), and therefore are either unable or unwilling to see the “gray areas” of life or issues. This makes them less willing to compromise or change their position on issues.
Couple this with the fact that they exist in a completely different informational ecosystem that not only constantly promotes binary, “Us-vs-Them” narratives, but also provides positive reinforcement through bias-confirming narratives that affirms that they’re correct/justified in what they believe, and promotes moral superiority for believing it (which has parallels to the white supremacist themes).
Essentially, these narratives put the Right’s political beliefs beyond reapproach because they are morally reinforced. This tactic works especially well with the highly religious because it aligns with their embrace/defense of their faith, which is also beyond rapproach.
The soothing affirmation of their beliefs simultaneously exists alongside a persecution/victimhood narrative that implies that any disagreement, challenge, or attempt to enforce societal norms, or even codified laws, is an attempt to marginalize, “cancel”, or “replace” them.
In the past, the political discourse consisted of two opposing philosophies/ideologies disagreeing over the interpretation of one set of facts. But in the current “fake news”/"alternative facts""post truth"/anti-intellectual honesty climate,
There's a common theme that weaves through grievance politics, perpetual victimhood, “cancel culture”, the recent anti-riot laws, and the January 6th insurrection.
There's a disconnect in their cognition that inhibits internal/logical consistency. They react to nearly every event "in a vacuum", independent of any other data point, issue, or argument. That reaction in nearly every situation is oppositional defiance.
(Cont.)
==
https://twitter.com/Nick_Carmody/status/1161042539043942400
Fear is a major factor in the Us-vs-Them dynamic. Fear organizes. Fear controls. Fear motivates. Another factor is that people often define themselves by their enemies.
When Tucker Carlson repeatedly tells his audience to: “Remember that when they come for you, and they will....” This causes even the slightest challenge, disagreement, or criticism to immediately trigger their “binary orientation” which not only places the person engaging them (even if it’s a loved one) into an Us-vs-Them, ally-or-enemy, context, but it also inhibits their ability to process moderate, compromising solutions to difficult societal issues and problems.
As a result, "background checks" are cognitively equated with abolishing the 2nd Amendment .Prohibiting hate speech or insurrectional incitements are equated to silencing “conservative” viewpoints, etc. It’s all or nothing.
Coulter, Hannity, Rush, etc., are "media authoritarians" who manipulate and indoctrinate their authoritarian followers by convincing them that they alone can inform them, they alone tell the truth, they alone can prevent the political and informational apocalypse.
~~~~~~~~~
Check him out on twitter. (We already know who WON"T bother with trying to understand themselves better.)
We also now know the conservative/authoritarian brain is measurably different from the rest of us. They react to new information and situations more emotionally than we do. This is due to their enlarged amygdala. This is the primitive “fight or flight” center of the brain. This is why they respond to the divisive "us v them" fear-mongering, anger and blame game their leaders exacerbate.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/
Conservative and Liberal Brains Might Have Some Real Differences
Scanners try to watch the red-blue divide play out underneath the skull
Guess which of these issues frightens/angers the authoritarians more...
2021 US child deaths
Guns: 1,552
Masks: 0
CRT: 0
Racists are critical of critical race theory because the theory is critical of racists.
Now teachers are being fired for "CRT" just on the word of angry frightened ignorant parents, who have no idea what CRT is. Teachers can't even teach the history of slavery and racism in the white-washed snowflake cult bubble.
In that clinical trial they seemed to use far too low a dose, 3.6 grams for a 200 pound person is way off, 14 grams and up is the recommended dose.
I do not think any agency wants to go against Big Pharma at this point. Countless Billions are being made with these vaccines and they will crush any body that tries to upset the apple cart.
Profits are the thing that counts here, that is why I trust people that have nothing to gain from the truth.
So Woody, to be clear, you're saying the pro-Trump, pro-Big Lie nuts are who you trust more than the Journal of the American Medical Association?
Would you trust Alex Jones and Breitbart over professional established journalists and peer-reviewed medical journal?
Why? On what verifiable basis?
Do you think they have nothing to gain by spreading misinformation?
Do you think your other sources are not out make money? What makes them so pure, and who holds them accountable?
I'm just saying this looks a lot like confirmation bias when you cite very disreputable sources.
But you are free to believe what you want to believe. You've made that clear.
If you don't mind me asking, do you believe the vaccine is deadlier than covid itself?
Do you believe it is killing more people than the disease?
I never supported Trump, never read Alex Jones or Breitbart. My opinions about vaccines comes from following Dr. Mercola, for 20 years he was just another doctor pushing an organic diet and selling high quality supplements. I also followed Dr. Greger, he wrote the book How not to die.
When the vaccines came out Mercola changed his entire site into a anti vaxx blog. I am sure he lost money going the whistle blower route along with death threats and government interference.
You think I am wearing a tin foil hat because I am highly skeptical of corporations or the AMA. There is almost a 100 years of corruption to back up my skepticism.
Look at lead paint, asbestos, cigarettes' and the dozens of harmful drugs made by Big Pharma and permitted by the EPA and the FDA for decades after they knew they were deadly.
But you are incredulous that the makers of the vaccines could possible put profit over the well being of the people!
I believe the vaccines are deadly to a portion of the people that get them. What that number is or will be is unknown and most likely never be known.
I believe the more shots you take the higher the risk factor. In Kennedy's book he felt 80 or 90% of the people could have been saved with alternative medicines like Ivermectin and the 5 other supplements.
India went from the worst Covid problems to the best over night because they did alternative treatments, how or why they back tracked with such good results seems political rather than medical.
"But you are incredulous that the makers of the vaccines could possible put profit over the well being of the people!"
As a member of "the people", vaccination has cost me zero dollars. The same is true for the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of human lives saved by it.
This isn't to say I'm not skeptical of Big Pharma at all, but facts are facts. And deaths directly from the vaccine would certainly be reported and are known. Every doctor and every clinic and every hospital are NOT in a giant conspiracy.
You have admitted you have nothing near a similar body count of lethal doses compared to lives saved. You cannot seem to admit that the deaths of the unvaccinated are significantly higher than the vaccinated.
Evidence matters. As I say, you have a LOT to prove, no matter who or what you believe.
Fringe doctors like Mercola (We all know damn well he's in it for the money.) are up against the overwhelming scientific consensus. He pedals fear to sell his products. He was warned by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in February 2021 for selling fake COVID-19 cures. Mercola was warned by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for falsely advertising products approved to "mitigate, prevent, treat, diagnose, or cure" various diseases.
Mercola's not the final expert here. He's a damn osteopath, not a virologist or even a researcher.
If you feel better with his alternative stuff, good for you. Placebos are known to have an effect, no doubt he has some good dietary suggestions. But that's not virology.
You're free to keep buying into peddlers like Mercola and into propaganda from pro-Trump and pro-Big Lie sources all you like.
Anecdotes and opinions cannot override the scientific medical consensus.
Your sources are far less reputable than the peer-reviewed JAMA and the American Association for the Advancement of Science.
The American Association for the Advancement of Science is an American international non-profit organization. https://www.science.org/
"I believe the vaccines are deadly to a portion of the people that get them. What that number is or will be is unknown and most likely never be known."
You are basing your beliefs on unknown numbers. Can you understand why I mentioned confirmation bias?
India:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm5154
Uncounted cases in India
It is apparent that the official number of COVID-19 cases that have accumulated in India is substantially underestimated, but the question is: by how much? In an independent survey of 137,000 adults, Jha et al. recorded how many people died from severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2)–related causes. Examining the data for all-cause mortality for the year spanning 2020 to 2021 revealed 26 to 29% excess mortality tracking waves of new variant transmission. Extrapolating to the Indian population, this equates to the deaths of more than 3.2 million people, with the majority occurring during April to June of 2021. —CA
Abstract
India’s national COVID death totals remain undetermined. Using an independent nationally representative survey of 0.14 million (M) adults, we compared COVID mortality during the 2020 and 2021 viral waves to expected all-cause mortality. COVID constituted 29% (95% confidence interval, 28 to 31%) of deaths from June 2020 to July 2021, corresponding to 3.2 M (3.1 to 3.4) deaths, of which 2.7 M (2.6 to 2.9) occurred in April to July 2021 (when COVID doubled all-cause mortality). A subsurvey of 57,000 adults showed similar temporal increases in mortality, with COVID and non-COVID deaths peaking similarly. Two government data sources found that, when compared to prepandemic periods, all-cause mortality was 27% (23 to 32%) higher in 0.2 M health facilities and 26% (21 to 31%) higher in civil registration deaths in 10 states; both increases occurred mostly in 2021. The analyses find that India’s cumulative COVID deaths by September 2021 were six to seven times higher than reported officially.
The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) is an American international non-profit organization with the stated goals of promoting cooperation among scientists, defending scientific freedom, encouraging scientific responsibility, and supporting scientific education and science outreach for the betterment of all humanity.[1] It is the world's largest general scientific society, with over 120,000 members,[2] and is the publisher of the well-known scientific journal Science.
"You are basing your beliefs on unknown numbers" Only God knows the real numbers.
The three VERS systems I talked about has plenty of numbers and they are all huge numbers of injured and dead.
Just because it is possible that the U.S. VERS is open to the public does not mean all the hundreds of thousands of reports are all made up. It takes 1/2 hour to make a single report, you have to have some medical knowledge to file it and if you make a singe mistake you have to start all over again. Probably 100 out of a 100 people never even heard of them.
Dave, I see you are completely uninformed about alternative holistic medicine. I can give you several examples where it is superior to traditional medicine.
I had three sleep studies over time , I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea and even worse, central sleep apnea. CSA is when you fall asleep you completely stop breathing, there is no signal to the brain to make you inhale.
Life was hell and the future looked dire, mask did not work for me at all. I read that THC helps with this brain malfunction so I tried it and I started sleeping better right away!
10 MGs a night and I was in heaven after getting a hour of sleep a night for a week at a time.
After nine months I was cured and no longer take THC, there is a lot more than placebos in holistic medicine.
VERS is not evidence. If I reported my toothache that developed after being vaccinated, it does not mean it was caused by the vaccine. I'm sure some anti-vaxxer will say it was the vax that did it. There's a lot of phobia and misinformation about vaccines.
Malone went off the deep end when he told Rogan about “third of the population basically being hypnotized” and pushing the very non-scientific concept of "mass formation psychosis" onto people who take the advice of Dr. Fauci. That's just dangerous and dishonest.
I'm not dismissing alternative therapies. Cannabis is a perfect example, and it's good to see it becoming more acceptable. Ignorance and racism were the reasons it was banned in the first place.
What is troubling is your dismissal of the fact lives are being saved by the vaccine. Those numbers are real, and not just known by God.
Woody,
Here is your burden of proof:
Dr. Malone stated:
"Once again I feel it necessary to make a clear and unambiguous statement. The data strongly indicate that the experimental genetic vaccines, including the mRNA and recombinant adenoviral vaccines, have saved lives. Many lives."
Agree, or disagree with evidence proving otherwise.
The American Association for the Advancement of Science is an American international non-profit organization. https://www.science.org/
Agree, or disagree with evidence proving otherwise.
CDC.
Agree, or disagree with evidence proving otherwise.
FDA.
Agree, or disagree with evidence proving otherwise.
Journal of the American Medical Association.
Agree, or disagree with evidence proving otherwise.
Just don't be like my youtube-educated brother or Malone and say I'm in a cult and afflicted with "mass formation psychosis". That is impossible to prove by reason or evidence. :-)
Save that for the true believers of the Trump Cult who swallow his Big Lie and support his and his terrorist mob's efforts to destroy our democracy.
Or you can admit your position is from feelings and beliefs. I accept your right to your beliefs, but they are qualified with confirmation bias from disreputable sources like newsrescue.com who claim, "TIME Admits 2020 US Election Was Rigged By “Well Funded Cabal” for Biden, Kamala Victory".
As you see, it will take a lot of documented facts from MD's, clinics and hospitals, along with peer-reviewed evidence from reputable research sources to sway me to your beliefs.
This post was about vaccines?
"This post was about vaccines?"
No, it is about being attacked by people from places where I could not defend myself.
But one may have picked up the clue where I was trying to redirect the thread back to the subject:
"Anonymous Vern says I'm censoring you for disagreeing. Do you think you're being censored?"
My accusers are afraid to meet me on equal ground. They banned me, and are free to comment here.
This indicates the fragility of their false accusations and lack of courage to engage in good faith, evidence-backed discussion.
If I know Woody, he's likely to want to discuss the Ukraine situation again, another favorite topic of his.
Unlike Anonymous, Jerry and Darrell, Woody's a gentleman who won't cast false accusations and lie about me.
Dave, your argument does not hold water, even if 10,000 people made bogus VERS reports the rest of the 100s of thousands of reports are valid. The military and European sites are off limits to the public so your theory is DOA.
The vaccines save lives but at what cost? A normal vaccine or drug trial ends when they kill 25 people but this number was passed at the beginning of the trials. The effects of the vaccines are cumulative so this is an ongoing slow moving catastrophe.
Since all the doctors that are against the vaccines are labeled quacks and charlatans by the mass media and you believe the media 100% I feel we are at a dead end here.
I will revisit this topic when new facts and information come out.
On to Ukraine !
If you are serious about coffee then you know a bad cup of coffee is better than no coffee.
The same goes for debating politics, we need more people here and now that Tom is gone it would be good if every one could bury the hatchet and start all over.
I guess this site mirrors the world, every one is at each others throat's.
'
Woody,
You have not provided evidence to support your burden of proof.
You have not disproved with evidence the CDC, FDA, JAMA, and American Association for the Advancement of Science.
Dr. Mercola's claims do NOT override these agencies and organizations. Sorry.
What argument of mine are you saying that doesn't hold water?
Vaccinations save lives? Holds water, fact and evidence based.
Unvaxxed people die in far greater numbers than fully vaxxed? Holds water, fact and evidence based.
This is not true: "you believe the media 100%". This no more true than if I said said, "you believe pro-Trump media 100%".
We are both free to question any sources, including yours. That's the difference between our perspectives. I don't see you questioning any conspiracy theories, or pro-Trump sources.
Most people find it difficult to question their beliefs.
When you show facts, I agree. When you make assertions not supported by scientific consensus, I point that out.
You would have to disregard the long history of this blog's criticisms of corporate media going back to the Saddam/WMD/al-Qaeda lies, up to its failures to warn of the radical Right's war on democracy.
Meanwhile, here's just a small partial list of your fellow believers. Dead believers are evidence that hold water. And corpses.
https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/
One more thing...
Out of respect and courtesy for fellow bloggers, I would at least make a comment relevant to their primary post. People ignoring what he wrote might be why Tom stopped posting. He DID respond to some on-topic comments. And he DIDN'T go down the rabbit holes dug by others.
Just sayin'.
Dave, the three VERS sites is my most powerful argument that the vaccines are far more dangerous than they should be. You discount them completely but your idea that they are corrupted is just conjecture.
Dr. Mercola is is the best at countering the Covid vaccine narrative but you dismiss him based on media smears. You never read any article on his site or his highly intelligent forum members.
When it comes to the Covid issue it seems you believe the media completely.
I still work full time so I do not have the time or the inclination to do the research and present you with a dissertation on all the government agencies failings. This is just for fun.
Your long and complicated post is mainly about a long standing feud with people that I do not know and do not comment here. I am all about politics but my last comment wished you and them would start over and build this forum up with lots of comments and different viewpoints.
One thing I will say is that you do not have the ability to mellow out for any length of time. I was the same way in the past with Chuck and Tom almost shut down the blog over it.
I came back to Toms to see if an attitude change could make a difference and it seemed to be working but then he shut it down.
Returning to the subject of "A Tale of Two Critics".
This is one of my recent tweets.
One glaring measure of corporate media bias can be found in how they frame issues, politicians, and politics.
We will always see the words, "too far left", and never see the words, "too far right".
These are recent false, invalid or unsupported assertions:
"You believe the media 100%."
"Dave, your argument does not hold water."
["VERS(sic) is not evidence."]*
"Your theory is DOA."
Citing the CDC on VEARS is not my "theory".*
This is too common in too many discussions or debates.
It is why the radical Right ideologues and over reactive sensitive egos say things like, "You leftists hate America" or "You accused me of being a pedophile."
The problem is the same in all these examples.
No quotes or evidence were cited to support those accusations and false framing of my positions.
If they were honest, they would preface their statements with, "You seem" or "It appears" or "I think" or "I believe". It is never productive to tell others what they think or believe without a verifiable point of reference. Not to mention it will annoy anyone to be told what they think by someone else.
This is contrary to good faith discussion and honest debate.
*
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vaers/index.html
Limitations
VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning that reports about adverse events are not automatically collected. Instead someone who had or is aware of an adverse event following vaccination must file a report.
VAERS reports are submitted by anyone and sometimes lack details or contain errors.
VAERS data alone cannot determine if the vaccine caused the reported adverse event.
This specific limitation has caused confusion about the publicly available data, specifically regarding the number of reported deaths. In the past there have been instances where people misinterpreted reports of death following vaccination as death caused by the vaccines; that is a mistake.
VAERS accepts all reports of adverse events following vaccination without judging whether the vaccine caused the adverse health event. Some reports to VAERS might represent true vaccine reactions, and others might be coincidental adverse health events not related to vaccination at all.
Generally, a causal relationship cannot be established using information from VAERS reports alone.
The number of reports submitted to VAERS may increase in response to media attention and increased public awareness.
It is not possible to use VAERS data to calculate how often an adverse event occurs in a population.
Cowardly liars still going on about me. Not one of them has quoted any “lie” from me. Jerry is still playing his imaginary victim card.
Rex said...
Hey Darrell and Jerry, Dave Dubya is whining about you too on his latest propaganda post.
Just the Facts (Anonymous Vern)
Dave has banned the posting of polls on his blog, lol. He is such an authoritarian.
Jerry:
I did not read Dave's post, but anyone who calls people pedophiles should not be listened to.
Darrell:
I could care less what Mr. Dubya has to say about me. His falsehoods and name calling have long been an issue, hence his being banned here.
Woody,
"I am all about politics but my last comment wished you and them would start over and build this forum up with lots of comments and different viewpoints."
Perhaps you know "Anonymous" Vern and Darrell "T Paine" from Tom's blog.
As I noted, they have banned me and refuse to hear what I have to say.
See for yourself and try your luck with them.
http://jdm4857.blogspot.com/2022/01/hitler-comparisons.html
http://savingcommonsense.blogspot.com/
Fox's Neil Cavuto said a second case of Covid-19 nearly killed him. "Let me be clear: Doctors say had I not been vaccinated at all, I wouldn't be here,” he said.
Dave, you keep ignoring the the European and military Vaers are closed systems and they were designed to compile data on pandemics and vaccine efficacy. They were also created to keep track of injury and deaths through disease and vaccines.
There are no false reports in these two systems that is why I said your theory of corrupt data bases is DOA.
Three years ago nobody ever said the Vaers systems were bogus, only with Covid did a conspiracy happen.
Woody,
What I'm NOT ignoring is the ramped up anti-vax conspiracy theories and politicization of vaccinations. Fear of vaccines has been around for years, but covid has brought out the collective anxieties over the disease and vaccine.
What you seem to be ignoring is the body count of the unvaccinated compared to the vaccinated. I wish you'd come out and admit you think the vaccine saves more lives than it takes, or not.
I've shown troves of evidence from reputable government, medical, and non-profit sources that indicate the vaccine saves lives. I'm thinking your fear of it forces you to focus only on the adverse reactions, which have been acknowledged.
Is this what you say I'm ignoring?
~~~
https://www.adrreports.eu/en/
EudraVigilance (Europe’s VEARS)
On this website you can view data on suspected side-effects, also known as suspected adverse drug reactions, for authorised medicines in the European Economic Area (EEA).
Key Information:
The information on this website relates to suspected side effects , i.e. medical events that have been observed following the use of a medicine, but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine.
Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use. Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine.
The European Medicines Agency publishes these data so that its stakeholders, including the general public, can access information that European regulatory authorities use to review the safety of a medicine or active substance. Transparency is a key guiding principle of the Agency.
~~~~
Note the word, "suspected".
Your claim, "There are no false reports in these two systems that is why I said your theory of corrupt data bases is DOA," is unsupported by facts. Where did I say these were "corrupt" data bases. I only quoted their sites saying the reports are of SUSPECTED reactions or conditions that FOLLOWED, but not necessarily CAUSED by the vaccine.
Please enlighten me with evidence how you know "suspected" means factual, and quote what I said that constitutes an alleged "theory".
EVIDENCE, please.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19932323.public-health-scotland-pulls-covid-case-rate-data-claims-demonstrates-conclusively-vaccines-not-working/
Dave , my main problem with you is you want every thing to black or white, no shades of grey allowed.
When I point out 650 athletes fall down on the field and 500 die of heart attacks that should make some sort of impact on you. Then you find out the list includes someone older or had previous problems so you say the entire concept is null and void.
It is unprecedented that super fit people should be dying by the 100s when normally not even one dies per year.
Sure, you can talk about "Suspected side effects" but when the Vears sites explode with 100s of thousands reports from just a few thousand a year something big is happening. It never happened before and it coincides with the vaccine rollout.
When the insurance companies say deaths increased 40% in the age group 18 to 65 which has not happened not even in the two world wars that means something. As far as I know they were not including Covid deaths in the statistics. Extraordinary things are happening but it is totally ignored by the media.
The link above shows the vaccinated are getting Covid more than the unvaxxed.
After this I would like to move on to a new topic.
By the way, I believe the vaccines saved lives.
My last comment in this topic:
Vaccines saved lives. Good to hear you confirm that. For some reason I still think you believe the vaccine is as deadly as the virus. You’ve shown no evidence to support that belief, no matter how much you like to refer to VEARS, and ignore their own words on the unreliability of the raw unexamined data. I’ve highlighted their words in bold print for you above.
It’s a pandemic. Of course reports to VAERS sites will be astronomically higher than before. Plus there’s an industry of anti-vax sites directing frightened people to VEARS to report any and all medical issues after vaccination, related or not.
And again, I understand there are serious adverse reactions. I never denied this, and never suggested it's a black and white issue.
"vaccinated are getting Covid more than the unvaxxed"
The article makes it clear this does not mean the vaccination is ineffective. It is because the vaxxed people outnumber the unvaxxed. Vaxxed people can contract and spread the virus. We all know this by now. Two of my vaccinated friends got it last month and in November.
They are fine now and didn't suffer any serious symptoms.
The article from your link explains:
~~~
There are so many caveats and they just pull certain figures out that should not be used. What we are going to do is do a lot more on the vaccine effectiveness side and try and make people understand how effective the vaccine is.
“For example we know it is 50 per cent effective against getting infected, but that it is much higher effectiveness against hospitalisations and deaths which is the key thing really as that’s what we want to prevent.”
...The trend was driven by hospital cases among "very vulnerable individuals" - particularly over-70s whose vaccine protection from a second dose was waning around the time Omicron took off, but whose health was also compromised by a combination of complex and chronic illnesses or frailty which is not accounted for through age-standardisation alone.
Their frailty - or the fact that they were in hospital, unable to go to booster appointments - meant many were overdue for, but unable to get, a third dose.
In younger age groups, hospitalisation and death rates continued to be lower for those with two doses compared to the unvaccinated.
Death and hospitalisation rates have been consistently substantially lower throughout the Omicron wave among those patients who had received boosters.
~~~
Re:...” insurance companies say deaths increased 40% ...As far as I know they were not including Covid deaths in the statistics.”
Yes, covid deaths ARE included. And many covid deaths go uncounted due to lack of testing and people dying at home.
Here are some articles to explain other factors and context:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/1/5/2072827/-Life-insurance-CEO-says-pandemic-death-rates-for-18-64-year-olds-are-the-highest-we-have-seen-ever
“Death rates up 40%, setting new 200-year high, life insurance company CEO says”
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1/25/2011733/-Pro-Trump-areas-are-undercounting-COVID-19-deaths-new-study-suggests-by-a-lot
“Pro-Trump areas are undercounting COVID-19 deaths, new study suggests, by a lot”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/02/01/how-falsehood-athletes-dying-covid-vaccines-spread/?utm_campaign=wp_politics_am&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_politics&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F35ea49f%2F61f925a49d2fda14d716ef67%2F596d1b4fae7e8a44e7ffe1ed%2F13%2F57%2F61f925a49d2fda14d716ef67
“How the falsehood of athletes dying from coronavirus vaccines spread”
If you’re going to dismiss this information as part of the vast conspiracy, further discussion is futile. I’m not here to argue beliefs, but to share and investigate facts.
Nice discussion about vaccines.
Nice good faith discussions are always welcome.
Hilarious Dave.
The only one who wants to talk to you is the anti-American Woody. Good luck with those good faith discussions.
Anonymous Vern must consider himself a nobody.
He's close to that, as shown by his bad faith.
I gotta give credit to you Lefties. You warned us Republicans that if we voted for Trump, we'd get inflation and wars!
Oh wait s minute, that didn’t happen, did it!
Louise,
Trump said he'd pull the US our of NATO if he won a second term, after doing his best to undermine it in his first term.
Would like to explain how that would have deterred Putin?
Oh, wait a minute. That would require pretzel logic.
I follow Russian politics closely but I was surprised by the war on Ukraine, I thought Putin would stop at supporting the two breakaway provinces. It seems Putin wants to turn the clock back to when NATO had very little influence over Russia.
I view this entire episode as another regime change failure of the U.S. If Obama left Ukraine alone this would not be happening and the full ramifications is still unknown.
Since Russia is so important to Europe with gas and oil exports all the sanctions will create immense problems for the European economy. This is a major geopolitical shift and I think Russia will come out on top.
They still can't get me out of their heads, as they accuse each other of being like me, excluding facts and reason, of course.
Here they are "saving common sense":
Jerry said...
Thanks for playing Dave, I'm out of your game.
March 3, 2022 at 6:16 PM
Jerry said...
Sounds just like Dave doesn't he Darrell.
March 4, 2022 at 12:18 PM
Just the Facts! said...
Jerry acts just like Mozart and Dave, refuses to answer any questions while demanding you answer his.
LOL! Literally.
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