Three
Choices
The
ship is sinking.
There
are only two lifeboats.
One
has a person with a cold.
The
other has a person with covid-19
Which
lifeboat do you get in?
Or
do you refuse both, and choose to go down with the ship?
Only
to be pushed into the covid-19 boat.
OK, Maybe my clumsy parable isn't clear enough. It's about the election, not the pandemic.
OK, Maybe my clumsy parable isn't clear enough. It's about the election, not the pandemic.
While
a third party protest vote feels quite self-righteous, it's Trump's second favorite vote.
It is essentially a vote that prioritizes resentment for Democrats' neoliberalism, over defeating Trump's fascism.
If he wins again, it will be because these voters refused to stand against him.
Again.
Elections matter.
Fellow
Bernie supporters may suggest I am betraying my progressive ideals by voting
for Biden.
No.
I am defending them from Trumpism. Many Bernie people will not, or might even
defect to Trump.
I
always stand opposed to the greater evil.
Voting
for Biden is no more a betrayal of democracy than being allied with Stalin in
WWII. It was the best way to defeat Hitler. That didn’t mean we supported him
afterwards.
Trump
will further poison our planet, government, courts, truth and democracy.
He
has to go.
Now.
I
stand with Bernie in this cause.
Posts
18 comments:
"Fellow Bernie supporters may suggest I am betraying my progressive ideals by voting for Biden." - Dave
Those who tell you that are not in this conversation because of progressive ideals. Those who want to see their progressive ideals understand the reality of the situation is that voting for anyone other than Biden is a vote against their ideals. Though Biden is not as far left as progressives would have hoped for, he's the best chance for the movement to actually succeed at something nationally this election cycle.
Those speaking about voting for Biden is a betrayal are drunk on their own kool aid and deep inside the internet bubble they've embedded themselves into. There's no viable path for a 3rd party candidate, especially a Progressive to beat both a Democrat and a Republican in the Electoral College. There just isn't. These same people will talk about their feelings and it's the right, moral thing to do.
No.
The right moral thing to do would get Trump out of office, work on electing progressives in the lower ticket elections, work someone up into national prominance like Bernie and try again for the Presidency in a future election.
TB3,
You're seeing the way forward. It's a process, not a conversion at the flick of a switch. The latter happens only after bloodletting or catastrophic events.
Otherwise more enlightened, the Left cannot learn the lesson the Right has mastered. You move your party in your direction. The Left dreams of a third party salvation that will never happen.
Evolution is better than revolution. The American Revolution accepted and preserved slavery. We evolved past that.
This year the choice is between neoliberalism and neoliberalism with Trumpism. I will resist that fascism, as we always have.
We'll still have a progressive cause, and we will certainly not abandon it by voting Trump out of office. In fact, we'll deserve him all the more if we don't.
"Voting for Biden is no more a betrayal of democracy than being allied with Stalin in WWII. It was the best way to defeat Hitler. That didn’t mean we supported him afterwards." ~ Dubya
Ironically many of the very policies that the American left now espouses are the same ones that Stalin and the USSR did. I guess in that way, we have "supported him afterwards." Further, if we were to actually enact these progressive ideals under the dementia=laden leadership of Joe Biden, we would only hasten America's collapse not unlike that which happened to the Soviet Union.
I suppose this is what happens when one is ignorant about history and economics.
Socialism doesn't fail because the "wrong people have been in charge" in past iterations of it. It fails because it doesn't account for human nature. In other words, it does not work as an overall economic system.
Happy Easter to you, Mr. Dubya and Mr. TB3! Cheers!
Mr. Paine,
Thank you so much for your kind Easter wishes.
And bless your heart for reminding us Stalinism is identical to socialism, and quite similar to progressivism within a democratic republic. Details or examples are quite unnecessary, as usual.
We're left wondering if public healthcare is Stalinism, or protecting voter rights and poll access is Stalinism. Certainly Trump's authoritarian narcissistic behavior and attacks on dissent and the free press are indications of a noble statesman, and sets an example for generations to come.
Only the wisest leader removes anyone who disagrees with him, or who dares to speak truths that the leader has decreed fake news.
And thank God our Dear Leader has the virus under control! He's the "only one", like a bright Orange Savior.
I'm sure Stalin would gloat in his tomb that our anti-pollution regulations have been his triumph over America. How pleased would he be to know our public education, public health, and safety nets for the old and sick have destroyed capitalism.
Something Putin would also admire, as all he has is the satisfaction of our Orange Savior siding with him over our socialist intelligence and security agencies who foolishly suggested Trump welcomed Russian help in the election.
And the benevolent Mr. Putin was never a commie, amirite?
We silly democratic socialists have some perverted issues with that kind of stuff.
Perhaps taxing corporations and the rich, regulating commerce, and providing for the general welfare are grave socialist/Stalinist errors in our Constitution.
Could you kindly fix these errors and make them go away, for the love of freedom? And for mercy's sake, we've got to free our people, and stop the government from messing with medical and economic aid in this pandemic. Where are our VALUES, for crying out loud?
And how about our hero, Rand Paul? Now there's a REAL American! He didn't mind mixing it up after testing for the coronavirus. Nosiree! He may have infected others, even fatally, but that's what American freedom is all about. None of that socialist "social distancing" crap.
Can't let the cure be worse than the problem.
Let's get sick and die for capitalism. It is the noblest thing to sacrifice human lives to Mammon, our Free Market god. Only malevolent Stalinist commies would have a problem with that.
Once again we stand humbly in the shadow of your profound understanding of history and economics.
Have a happy Easter, old buddy. And don't worry about us. Ignorance is bliss.
"Happy Easter to you, Mr. Dubya and Mr. TB3! Cheers!" - TP
Seeing you respond brought a genuine smile to my face. Good to hear from you and Happy Easter to you as well!
"I suppose this is what happens when one is ignorant about history and economics." - TP
I am neither, thankfully. I am curious as to why you think a vote for Biden would "hasten America's collapse". Afterall, you were pretty doom and gloom about the "socialist" Obama, but the only thing he led our country to was to an energetic minority that got our current President elected.
TB3,
I'm always amused how Mr. Paine and his fellow true believers of...I'm not sure what exactly, other than a belief that our polices are Stalinist.
One would think he would be happy to specify these "Stalinist ideals" we espouse. He never does.
Doesn't that strike you as odd coming from one who has the superior understanding of history and economics?
It's their standard method of debate/discourse we see. They state their beliefs as facts that are above question, because they have never questioned any of their beliefs. This defines con-servativism. An open mind is a dangerous mind to them.
"Liberals are commies" has been their dogma for so long, they can't even explain why they believe that now. The same is true for their belief in the "liberal media". Facts don't matter. Anything a liberal, educator, scientist or the press says is by their definition communist in nature. Details are unimportant.
Here is what we must conclude is their case:
Democracy, as in fair elections by winning the most votes, = "mob rule" = Communism.
Constitutional regulation of commerce, taxes, and the provision for the general welfare are Communist ideals.
Public education is Communism.
Public healthcare is Communism.
Equal representation and justice under law is Communism.
Holding the position that humans, not corporations, are persons is Communism.
Holding the position that government should represent and serve the general public over, or at least as much as, the interests of the powerful elites, rich, corporations and banks is communism.
And here we thought Communism was one-party rule of a police state and dictator, with total ownership of land, resources, the press, industry, agriculture, mining, production, distribution, and control of every level of commerce was Communism.
Seems more like the Republican agenda under Trump, but what do we ignorant rubes know compared to the enlightened white male conservative who scorns education as communism?
It's curious how they can demean journalism, education, and the educated, and then call us ignorant.
It's all about the beliefs. Like a cult, one could say.
Happy and blessed Easter on this beautiful Sunday to you Dave and TB3. I do hope you and yours are all well and happy.
I don't know that I have the time and energy to respond to our gracious host Dave as he plays his greatest hits yet one more time.
That said, you make an interesting observation, TB3. President Obama, in my opinion, wasn't the problem in and of himself. Rather he was a symptom of an indoctrinated and politically correct motivated populace. Mr. Dubya would call that indoctrination "education".
There is no objectivity in education anymore. There is no review of historical truth. It has all been twisted and perverted to serve a political ideology. That is how come we can have college "educated" students decrying racist America; the same America that elected and then re-elected President Obama. It is the same populace, instructed by the leftist media, that pooh-poohs Obama's lawlessness in Behghazi, fast and furious, Iran nuclear deals, Obama-care, and the erosion of many constitutional rights... especially our first amendment right to freedom of religion.
It isn't Obama that I really decried as much as the mindset of the people that thought his grander ideas were good and excused his lesser or illegal ideas as just nasty politics from the Republicans.
I decry the public that thinks it is okay to try and nationalize our healthcare, thereby causing me and millions of people to lose our doctors and our health insurance, despite repeated promises that this would not happen. The results of Obamacare have been a disaster by far on balance accordingly as government dictates coverage and prices continue to escalate for sub-standard care.
I decry the public that thinks, in the name of the greater good, our federal government can dictate to GM and Chrysler which cars they can make and which dealerships can no longer remain open. Oldsmobile, Hummer, and Pontiac are all gone, but rather than letting Americans decide that through the marketplace, Obama knew what is best for us.
Mr. Dubya touts President Trump's off-handed joke, "Russia, if your are listening..." as proof that Trump is a Russian stooge; however, when President Obama passes on to "Tell Putin that I can be more flexible after the election...", well that is just statesmanship. If Obama were a Republican, that statement alone would have the pernicious and egregious Congressman Schiff drafting articles of impeachment. (And with more actual cause.)
No, Obama wasn't necessarily the problem. The problem is the people that think the governmental forgiveness of all of their student debt, the necessity of "free" health care, that only the "rich" should pay taxes, and that abortion on demand should be enshrined as a constitutional right... well these poor misguided and indoctrinated folks are the actual source of the nation's problems.
And before Mr. Dubya goes and makes his inevitable list of Trump's transgressions, let me stipulate that he does indeed have many. He is not perfect nor even close; however, he is not the "Orange tyrant" that Dave decries. And when this viral pandemic has run its course, whom do you really trust to bring stability and economic strength back to America?
If you are being objective and putting politics aside while looking only at facts, it is pretty much indisputable that Trump got us there in record numbers beforehand and is most likely the best candidate to do so again. Poor Joe Biden is incapable of even conducting a campaign speech without making serious gaffes. He is not the captain whose hand we need on the tiller. Yet, despite that fact, millions of people will vote for a dementia-suffering candidate out of hate for Trump and invincible ignorance of objective facts.
Best wishes to you both. Glad to see that while the world goes on, at least on Dave's site, things remain the same! ;)
Cordial Easter greetings to you, Mr. Paine.
Wishing health and happiness for you and yours.
It’s unfortunate you haven’t the time and energy to respond with facts that support your assertions and accusations of Stalinism. Maybe the reason is due to the lack of such evidence?
As our past exchanges have consistently shown, you never cared to provide facts and evidence to support assertions and beliefs. I think the reason is that in conservative circles, simply being conservative conveys both righteousness and political correctness. They believe it, so it must be true.
Unfortunately their “truths” are not as self-evident as their conservative bias.
Bias is human. It is in every one of us. This is why evidence and facts are important and beliefs must be examined. One can be conservative or progressive and still be factually correct. But only one side is at war with journalism, education and science. One side accuses the other of bias, as they cling to beliefs that are not supported by said sources.
Now I stand accused of equating political indoctrination with education. This projection has been part of the Right’s war on science, education and journalism for decades.
There are no political tests for historical and scientific facts. They must stand peer review and research. Conservative ideology never required such substantiation.
And this is issue. Conservatives resent the fact that science, history, and math etc. have zero regard for their ideology, and it often stands in stark contrast to it.
That bugs them to no end. Their reasoning goes like this. “If science, journalism, or facts disagree with our ideology, then they are wrong. They are fake”.
Ring a bell?
Here’s the proof:
”There is no objectivity in education anymore. There is no review of historical truth. It has all been twisted and perverted to serve a political ideology.”
All of these irrational blanket accusations are patently false.
And speaking of falsehood.
Mr. Paine, it would appear you have no issues with Trump’s dishonesty, or consequences of such dishonesty. And no issue with the Republican Party’s compliance and obeisance with such pathological dishonesty.
This is the twisted mindset that distances itself from truth and must attack journalism, science and education.
Better to believe Dear Leader, when he declares, “I know more than the generals/doctors/scientists/journalists/educators”, or anyone else who spent a lifetime in their field.
We get it. Honesty, education, science and a free press are NOT conservative values. The same is true for voter rights and fair elections with fair representation.
Mr. Paine,
What are conservative values? From my perspective it comes down to money and maintaining power for the economic elites. They are modern day royalists. White identity and evangelicalism are also prominent social values. Our nation must be under the leadership of rich white people who pander to Christianity, or it is communism. Minority rule is their rule.
Truth, equality, and honesty are not part of that value system, which is why they prefer to demonize, science, education, the press and dissent instead.
I would submit this is much closer to Stalinism than Obamacare.
And why have you offered no evidence to support your accusation that progressive policies are “Stalinist”? I suggest your point is not intended to enlighten, but to condemn without evidence. THAT is Stalinist.
Why did you suggest “Russia if you’re listening” was my argument? My case was clearly represented by Trump’s “Helsinki Betrayal”.
Is good faith discussion that difficult?
I would love someone to explain how Obama shut down Oldsmobile in 2004. But that’s not important. Resentment for Obama overrides facts and history.
Yes, you’re clearly annoyed that the auto bailout was attached to conditions. Some dealerships were closed and some jobs lost, but many thousands more were saved. It’s that “public good” stuff that bothers you so much. Layoffs at auto plants and among auto parts suppliers were on track to reach 250,000 workers.
What matters is maintaining resentment for Obama.
The public good is the entire point of government. Now it’s become a tool of corporate power. Just as the founders wanted, amirite?
“Socialism fails”, yet socialized public healthcare in every other modern society has better outcomes at lower costs. People love it. This is another reason facts are not welcome in far Right ideology.
For wanting healthcare for everyone, progressives are called “Stalinist”, when actually it is the most Christian of all public policies.
Conservative beliefs lie elsewhere.
If you are being objective and putting politics aside while looking only at facts, it is pretty much indisputable that Trump got us there in record numbers beforehand and is most likely the best candidate to do so again.”
You had me up until “it is pretty much indisputable that Trump got us there...” Facts were abandoned as quickly as they were invoked.
Why do cons forget/ignore Obama inherited the Bush Recession?
Why do cons forget/ignore Trump inherited an expanding economy?
Because facts don’t support their ideology or glorification of the pathological liar.
During Trump's first 36 months in office, the US economy gained 6.6 million jobs. During a comparable 36-month period at the end of Obama's tenure, employers added 8.1 million jobs, or 23% more than what has been added since Trump took office.
The average monthly gain under Trump was 182,000 jobs. During the last 36 months under Obama, employers were adding an average of 224,000 jobs a month.
I fully expect you to ignore these facts. They do not fit your ideology.
But never mind all this.
I’m still delighted you cared to visit, and I still know you are basically a decent person. My neighbor is of your same ideology, but we are friends and we trust each other. I hope the same might be true with us.
"There is no objectivity in education anymore. There is no review of historical truth. It has all been twisted and perverted to serve a political ideology." - TP
For example?
"It is the same populace, instructed by the leftist media, that pooh-poohs Obama's lawlessness in Behghazi, fast and furious, Iran nuclear deals, Obama-care, and the erosion of many constitutional rights... especially our first amendment right to freedom of religion." - TP
Okay, so you still believe in these things. Can you instruct the viewers at home what instructions the "Leftist media" were and, presumably, are? And I'll repeat this question that I often posed on your blog; What erosion of freedom of religion are you referring to? Or is this the general, vague scary victim mentality we always hear from the "Evangelical" Right? Oh, wait. It's about abortion again, isn't it? Oh man. If only someone could point to me in the Bible about how a woman's access to abortion infringes on a person's personal worship experience.
"I decry the public that thinks it is okay to try and nationalize our healthcare, thereby causing me and millions of people to lose our doctors and our health insurance, despite repeated promises that this would not happen. The results of Obamacare have been a disaster by far on balance accordingly as government dictates coverage and prices continue to escalate for sub-standard care."
Except Obamacare wasn't a nationalization of healthcare. Those that continue to conflate the two do not know what nationalizing something is or what healthcare is. The VA is nationalized healthcare. At no time was the VA System spoken of as the model for Obamacare.
"well these poor misguided and indoctrinated folks are the actual source of the nation's problems." - TP
Why is that? Two quibbles though. No one is advocating abortion on demand or that only the rich should pay taxes. Still, even if they were advocating for these things, what exactly is the problem with these things?
"however, he is not the "Orange tyrant" that Dave decries. And when this viral pandemic has run its course, whom do you really trust to bring stability and economic strength back to America?" - TP
It's amazing all the doom and gloom about freedom, liberty and tyranny you yourself wrote often about is so blind to the actual executive overreach this administration is actually undertaking. It's mindbogglingly amazing the blinders a single letter R next to a person's name gives someone with a keen understanding of history and economics such as yourself, TP.
"If you are being objective and putting politics aside while looking only at facts" - TP
What facts led you to this understanding, TP? Maybe I am working from different facts and have come to a different conclusion.
" Poor Joe Biden is incapable of even conducting a campaign speech without making serious gaffes." - TP
Yes, we all get it. Biden's a gaffe machine with a history of verbal stutter. Yes. And we have Donald Trump who gaffes, lies, deflects and obfuscates. It's a waste of breath and text saying these things, right?
"Yet, despite that fact, millions of people will vote for a dementia-suffering candidate out of hate for Trump and invincible ignorance of objective facts." - TP
You just described the 2016 election, except replace 'Trump' with 'Hillary'.
TB3,
I recall Mr. Paine once agreed with me that Trump is morally unfit to be president. Yes, indeed he did.
I have to wonder what noble display of moral character by the president convinced him otherwise...
I'm afraid this too shall remain a mystery to us unbelievers. Perhaps our Stalinist ideology may impair our good judgment?
It is sad that Mr. Paine and his fellow believers cannot offer some helpful and enlightening information for benighted outsiders like us.
Maybe we should admit it's our own willful adherence to authoritarian communism that darkens our eyes to the glorious light of Donald J. Trump and his followers.
Looks like we are on our own, or compelled to be "instructed by the leftist media".
It's a terrible thing to have to think for one's self.
Maybe Mr. Paine has been subtly suggesting all along that we need to listen to more FOX(R) and Rush Limbaugh, and we're too dense to have noticed.
Our loss. It would be a comfort indeed, to learn covid-19 is just the common cold. Or is it just a mild flu? I need more indoctrination.
"I have to wonder what noble display of moral character by the president convinced him otherwise..." - DD
Well, you see, Donald Trump claims he's a victim of the "Leftist Media" and we all know the "Leftist Media" is horrible, anti-democratic, mean, kidnapped the Lindburgh Baby, added floride to the water, and is a member of the Illuminati... so that means the President is, afterall, decent and ALL THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE PRESIDENT'S FANCLUB ARE WRONG.
"It is sad that Mr. Paine and his fellow believers cannot offer some helpful and enlightening information for benighted outsiders like us." - DD
It's easy to declare something, such as someone with a differing political view, is wrong. The difficult part, and the part people like Hannity and Limbaugh and Tucker and JTF and TP, is proving it. They skip that part and instead relying on the thing they always project into the dreaded "liberal" or "progressive"; feelings. It feels like they should be right. So they are and The Liberal is wrong one. It's obvious.
"Maybe we should admit it's our own willful adherence to authoritarian communism that darkens our eyes to the glorious light of Donald J. Trump and his followers." - DD
I fear some folks don't actually understand what authoritarian means. I, personally, do not want an authoritarian in control of my government. Which is why I am not voting for one this coming election. Here's hoping folks like TP don't vote for one, either. It'd be a shame for TP to vote for someone who literally, on camera, advocated taking away guns and worry about the legal aspects of such a move until after the guns were taken.
"Maybe Mr. Paine has been subtly suggesting all along that we need to listen to more FOX(R) and Rush Limbaugh, and we're too dense to have noticed." - DD
The funny thing is that I once listened to El Rushbo religiously. And Hannity. I feel lighter and better on my feet now that I don't listen to them.
TB3,
As I noted, conservatives are royalists. Most would never admit it, though.
So yes, conservatism "feels right".
And it always has throughout history. That feeling requires no information, no insight, and no ability to see or empathize with the people oppressed or abused by the power structure.
The empires of Macedonia, Egypt, Persia, Rome, etc were too powerful to not feel right.
Then it would be feudalism's turn to feel right. It was the proven social order where nobles, clergy, and serfs all knew their appropriate places.
The Divine Right of Kings would feel right. After all it was the will of God, or so said the Kings. It feels right, or else...off with their heads!
Aristocracy would feel right. Rich people are inherently better and wiser than the rest of us. This is a constant throughout history.
And this is why slavery would FEEL right to wealthy Southern white conservatives.
Nazi, Italian, and Japanese fascism would follow, and also feel right. Or else.
Maoism and Stalinism would feel right. Or else.
And now, corporatist Wall Street rule through the Republican Party, and to a somewhat, but lesser degree through Democrats, feels right. Or else.
Now we have arrived at the logical final phase. Corporations are persons. They are super persons with the wealth to buy and control politicians and government policy. (In service to the economic royalists, of course.)
And yet it still feels right. Or else...
But wait. No. None of those felt right to a lot of people. Those with a conscience and sense of fairness and decency saw the horrible human rights abuses, and the destruction of civilizations, and the suppression of human progress.
But the minority with authoritarian personalities stood firmly by their feelings for the righteousness of their authoritarian hierarchies.
The authoritarian personality has unraveled and suppressed justice and advances in human society for millennia.
But on the other hand, it proved quite profitable for the powerful, tyrannical, and corrupt leadership of the respective times. The leaders would proclaim their supporters as the true patriots. This would FEEL very good to their supporters. They have always been the "patriotic ones". It FEELS soooo good to be better than those unpatriotic troublemakers who refused to obey and believe the rich and powerful authoritarian leaders.
From Divine Right of tribes, to Divine Right of kings, to Divine Right of race, to Divine Right of nations, to Divine Right of wealth, the parade of authoritarians has been the longest curse on humanity.
No wonder Mr. Paine must believe deeply that we are the ones who have no understanding of history or economics. Otherwise it wouldn't FEEL good at all.
The authoritarian personality has a relatively over-active amygdala that compels them into protecting their feelings. Yes, it is their "fight or flight" emotion mechanism in the primitive part of the brain that characterizes the authoritarian personality.
It IS all about their feelings. They are more delicate emotionally than the rest of us. Almost as if they were projecting the term "snowflake", isn't it?
Speaking of the authoritarians...
Of course we have heard them project and accuse progressives of being authoritarian.
And of course they will excuse, justify, or dismiss this from their VERY authoritarian leader:
“When somebody's president of the United States, the authority is total."
How authoritarian can one be? A total authoritarian. The full definition of totalitarian, right out of the lie hole of the Tangerine Tyrant.
For fun, picture their reaction to the Black President if he had said this.
"For fun, picture their reaction to the Black President if he had said this." - Dave
It's not fun to be reminded that there are some of my fellow citizens that will actively, deliberately ignore their hypocrisy. We don't need to play the 'what-if' game. We saw how those on the "Right" acted in response to misconstrued, misremembered or completely made up tyrannical conspiracies. I mean, look at TP. He still brings up Fast and Furious and Benghazi. I'm not dismissing what happened and the loss of life as nothing, but notice the lack of energy, dismissal and/or outright defense of a Republican President abusing his power, issuing pardons of outright criminals and war criminals, the obvious fleecing of the Federal Purse by constantly staying at his own resorts, inviting foreign interference in the election, the outright, provable lies, the needless economic turmoil, the degradation of our Nation's status in the world, 'I take no responsibility at all', ? Oh, but Obama saluted a Marine while holding a cup of coffee once. Where are the screes and gnashing of teeth over Executive Orders? I mean, the TP's of the world whined and complained about Obama's EO's, despite him having the fewest of any 2 term President since Grover Cleveland.
Yeah. It's not fun being reminded of the obvious and blatant hypocrisy some of my fellow Americans engage in. Really, if they were honest and just agreed and said 'Yeah, I'm rooting for this guy, despite him doing these things cause I view politics and government as the same thing AND as a sport', it may not bother me as much.
TB3,
I wish they would view politics and government as mere sport. This isn't sport to them.
They see it as war. And they see us as the enemy.
They are so brainwashed they see dissent against the authoritarian as treason. They see our press as the enemy of the people. They see education as "leftist indoctrination". They see science as something to ignore when it counters their beliefs. They see journalism as "fake".
This echos the NAZI term Lugenpresse, or lying press, used in their war on journalism.
The historic parallels are clear. All of those positions are those of totalitarians.
Conservatives have always sided with monarchies, dictatorships, and even slavery in the first century of our so-called republic.
They are so terrified by their indoctrinated beliefs they literally think we are anti-American Stalinists. They don't see us as having different viewpoints that invite rational discussion or debate. They want to accuse, blame, and silence us.
It it a 100% totalitarian mindset.
They are deafeningly silent on Trump and his party's own utter lack of honesty, cruelty and other authoritarian words and behavior. And you're onto something. I don't think they know what authoritarian means, or if they do, they embrace it.
“When somebody's president of the United States, the authority is total."
What can they do but project their own Stalinism? They are utterly incapable of condemning the totalitarian nature of their leaders. They are utterly incapable of examining their beliefs, or modifying them to fit new information, because they are a cult.
Poor Mr. Paine is incapable of providing factual evidence to support his accusations, and he had to cut and run after I introduced factual evidence that plainly contradicted his defense of Trump.
Mr. Paine has an open invitation to offer us evidence that shows the error of my words.
I'm afraid all we would see are more false accusations, more "Benghazi", more "fast and furious", more "emails", and more misinformation.
If we mention Helsinki, they will ignore it. If we mention Trump openly admitting he would accept foreign help in an election, they will ignore it. They will ignore every fact that shows their beliefs, or leaders, are wrong.
Hypocrisy doesn't exist for them. It is an alien concept. They are a cult. And a cult is never a cult to a cult.
I started typing out a long line-by-line response to each point, as I used to do in the past, which was always summarily ignored, while the whining continued that I provided no "evidence" or "examples". Unfortunately I must have done something where I lost all that I wrote. I don't have the patience to rewrite it again simply to be dismissed by people that "feel they are right" and anyone saying anything contrary must be an authoritarian and a hypocrite.
For the record, I still do not like Trump or find him to be a moral man. I am painfully aware of his flaws and I cringe every time he speaks. That said, his actions on balance have been far better for the country in its economy and freedoms than what we saw under Obama or would see under whomever Biden selects as his VP, since it is unlikely he will be unable to govern for long.
I'll leave you two to remain in your echo chamber congratulating yourselves on being the enlightened and compassionate ones, while your supported governmental representatives continue to scheme how to punish the productive, cripple corporations, erode the Bill of Rights, and provide for those whom have no intention of even trying to provide for themselves.
I know you both are good guys and want many of the same things I do for the country; however, the ways we get to those points varies greatly. Guess I felt twinges of nostalgia and checked out your site once again, Mr. Dubya. My feeling has been sated and I'll leave you in your ivory towers once again to look down upon anyone that disagrees with you or has even one good thing to say about President Trump. Cheers, my friends!
Mr. Paine,
Thank you for reiterating your unsubstantiated beliefs and unfounded accusations. (Those jobs numbers meant nothing to you, right?)
To "Punish and cripple" the corporate powers that bought and corrupted our government sounds like a noble cause. But this is all the Right's patented "victim card" in play, of course.
In their view, nobody suffers like the rich, white, conservative and privileged of America. Not even the families and victims of the pandemic, that would have been better mitigated if he hadn't neglected, downplayed, and dithered on such a looming crisis.
You believe freedom is expanded under the Party of Trump, as they wage open warfare on voting rights, voter registration, poll access, and even the US Postal Service that would deliver mail-in ballots. They want us to either not vote, or stand in line in a pandemic.
Ah, smell the freedom! Those "values" are abundantly clear.
He attacks the First Amendment, and truth itself, whenever the press or people don't buy his lies, or question his actions.
Some "freedom", isn't it? But don't let these facts detract from your praise of Trump's actions.
I appreciate you clarifying your view of Trump's obvious and sickening lack of morality. It is amazing how such immorality is seen as bearing good fruit in your eyes. I'll have to reexamine my failure to see the benefits of lies, birtherism, demonization of the press, and hateful words of derision and division of our people.
Looks like I'll have to wait for the facts that you didn't share to clear things up.
“When somebody's president of the United States, the authority is total."
The proclamation of a totalitarian with no checks or balances draws only a cringe?
This must rise to the standards of your authoritative interpretation of the Constitution. IOKIYAR. Twas ever thus.
I stand in awe of only cringing at the words of America's leader, and how he has destroyed our standing in the world. Do you think Helsinki was anything but a spectacular victory for Putin? Was it not a great deception and betrayal?
It must feel good to feel Trump's lies, hateful rhetoric, and other vile words have no effect or consequences. To believe "Chinese virus" and Asian Americans being assaulted and beaten are entirely unrelated. To believe "Mexican rapists and murderers" and the El Paso massacre are entirely unrelated. Yes, it would feel good to believe this.
"But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man `unclean".
And Mr. Paine, I'm disappointed I appear to be looking down at you. After all, you kindly alluded to my ignorance of history and economics. Isn't that exactly the kind of thing said from ivory towers?
Now if could only remember what I said about hypocrisy and projection...
Yes we both want a free and prosperous America. It's just that we see government involvement in healthcare and education from opposite perspectives. You see what the rich and powerful want you to see. Profit is the motive and measure. We see fellow human beings in need of healthy minds and bodies. The Constitutional general welfare of We the People is the motive and measure.
And a parting gift just for you. I wholeheartedly agreed when Trump finally came around to supporting face masks or coverings worn in public. I held that position before it became the official one. I took a lot of flack for it too.
And it proves you are wrong in your final accusation. Just being honest.
Anyway, if Trump can come around on something, maybe you can. You're a better person, I dare say.
Thank you for you contribution, and stay well, old buddy.
Post a Comment