For respite from the mud pit, I'd like to share this polite exchange that shows the possibility of communication across the chasm. Contrast the tone of the recent question with that of the previous harsher, "Do you lefties care
more about political correctness than protecting innocent Americans"?
That tone was lifted directly from the Trump/RNC Party line, which isn't the best approach to constructive dialogue.
The more recent question is more civil and less suggestive of the 'liberals don't want to protect innocent Americans" propaganda.
Enjoy the truce while we have it.
~~~~~~~
Rex:
Dave, can you please tell me why Democrats voted for
better enforcement and wall construction in the past but refuse to do so now
that Trump is president? What has changed, other than who sits in the oval
office? If there is truly a relevant fact I am missing, please enlighten me.
Otherwise, this smacks of nothing more than petty partisanship on behalf of
Schumer, Pelosi, and the Democrats.
==
Dave Dubya:
Rex,
I'm happy to answer your politely delivered question. Thank you.
The relevant facts that I see are these:
1. Both the House and Senate voted for a CR that included funding for border security.
2. Trump was about to sign it, then the voices of his far Right base called him a coward.
3. Trump proudly claims the shutdown as his own. Trump is the ONLY one who is refusing to compromise.
Your question was framed upon the correct premise that Dems voted for border security in the past. If "open borders" was their real goal, why would they care to fund security improvements?
As noted in Fact 1, there was border security funding in the bill Trump backed out of, like a coward, cowering to Ann Coulter and Limbaugh.
The fact remains the Dems are not refusing to approve border funding. They ARE refusing $50 billion for Trump's wall. It is an ill-defined and ever-changing demand. He is holding our government hostage to this demand. Real Americans are paying the consequences, not Mexico.
Most Americans agree on not giving Trump that money for his stupid campaign promise for his fantasy wall and BS about Mexico paying for it. Where's the pesos?
In fact, representatives of EVERY district bordering on Mexico don't want Trump to get his $50 billion wall.
One more fact to remember is Schumer offered $25 billion in border security, (Not his wall) in exchange for relenting on DACA. Remember when Trump said, "I love the Dreamers!"?
Trump REFUSED to compromise. Now he blames Democrats. This is that authoritarian personality thing I keep harping about.
I hope you find these facts helpful.
Facts. We liberals and moderates along with journalists, scientists and teachers use them all the time. ;-)
Those on the far Right generally choose their "alternative facts".
This is big problem reflected by the many futile attempts made to communicate and compromise with the Right.
I also believe communication is best accomplished through polite discourse by mutually accepted facts, evidence and definitions of terms.
I can dream, can't I?
I'm happy to answer your politely delivered question. Thank you.
The relevant facts that I see are these:
1. Both the House and Senate voted for a CR that included funding for border security.
2. Trump was about to sign it, then the voices of his far Right base called him a coward.
3. Trump proudly claims the shutdown as his own. Trump is the ONLY one who is refusing to compromise.
Your question was framed upon the correct premise that Dems voted for border security in the past. If "open borders" was their real goal, why would they care to fund security improvements?
As noted in Fact 1, there was border security funding in the bill Trump backed out of, like a coward, cowering to Ann Coulter and Limbaugh.
The fact remains the Dems are not refusing to approve border funding. They ARE refusing $50 billion for Trump's wall. It is an ill-defined and ever-changing demand. He is holding our government hostage to this demand. Real Americans are paying the consequences, not Mexico.
Most Americans agree on not giving Trump that money for his stupid campaign promise for his fantasy wall and BS about Mexico paying for it. Where's the pesos?
In fact, representatives of EVERY district bordering on Mexico don't want Trump to get his $50 billion wall.
One more fact to remember is Schumer offered $25 billion in border security, (Not his wall) in exchange for relenting on DACA. Remember when Trump said, "I love the Dreamers!"?
Trump REFUSED to compromise. Now he blames Democrats. This is that authoritarian personality thing I keep harping about.
I hope you find these facts helpful.
Facts. We liberals and moderates along with journalists, scientists and teachers use them all the time. ;-)
Those on the far Right generally choose their "alternative facts".
This is big problem reflected by the many futile attempts made to communicate and compromise with the Right.
I also believe communication is best accomplished through polite discourse by mutually accepted facts, evidence and definitions of terms.
I can dream, can't I?
Posts
35 comments:
Dave, afraid of my posts?
Coward.
Some assholes can't get it through their head this is my blog, and off topic trolling isn't welcome.
I'm sure this is due to their utter inability to connect words of their own to express rational thought.
"Liberals want the US to be Venezuela!! Liberals hate America!!"
There, I've got his message out.
Done.
He can go back to his White Settlement now.
Just because you are a perfect rectum does not mean all of your views are perfect. It's clear that you are scared to death of any view point other than your own being read. So yes, this is your blog and yes you can publish what you. Your choices provides over whelming proof of your being a fearful leftist.
Cancel away, you racist prick.
BTW, Jeff Davis hasn't gotten a thing correct about my name or where I live, suck on that.
P.S. Trump is still the President of the USA.
"It's clear that you are scared to death of any view point other than your own being read"
This observation was made after several posts featured large swaths of viewpoints other than mine.
What does this say about this person's capacity to read and reason?
...you racist prick"
How white of him. His far Right anger and rage are palpable.
Not for long...
;-)
I can't speak for Jeff Davis, but I know everything.
Coward?
You are the pot calling the kettle black.
You chickened-out and were scared to death to confront me in person at DFW when I passed through in October.
KKKoward.
JG,
Vern's on a frothing rampage and has been dumping furiously.
Time to switch on the Moderation Troll Filter.
Washington Post reports:
The furloughing of hundreds of Food and Drug Administration inspectors has sharply reduced inspections of the nation’s food supply — one of the many repercussions of the partial government shutdown that are making Americans potentially less safe.
The agency, which oversees 80 percent of the food supply, has suspended all routine inspections of domestic food-processing facilities, FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said in an interview. He is working on a plan to bring inspectors back as early as next week to inspect facilities considered high-risk because they handle sensitive items such as seafood, soft cheese and vegetables, or have a history of problems.
The safety and protections for all Americans are compromised and threatened. TSA, air traffic, the Coast Guard, etc. are losing pay and taking cuts in staff, as the crook in the White House accuses Democrats of not wanting to protect American lives.
The Big MAGAt cares nothing about the people. Why does his party of appeasers continue to hurt Americans? They could override his veto, but they don't give a damn either.
The only word for Trump and his angry hateful mob is evil.
JG,
JTF "Vern" has been sending us love notes all night. He's getting more vulgar and more angry.
We have a jilted Troll, barking at the moon. LOL!
I'm saving them to compare to the "horrible attacks" suffered by T. Paine. I wonder how Mr. Paine would have reacted if we called him a racist prick and coward, while dumping handfuls of off-topic copy and paste BS and angry hate.
And they call liberals snowflakes?
As the shutdown heads into its fourth week, the nation is getting used to the radical idea that we can actually do without the fleets of bureaucrats who, in the immortal words of the Declaration of Independence, have been "sent hither to harass our people and eat out their substance."
"And they call liberals snowflakes?"
So what they're really meaning is we're as clean and pure as the driven snow. Is that really a slur?
Better than being the current Republican equivalent of snow that's been plowed and shoved to the side of the road, dirty and slushy from sand and salt and other contaminating chemicals - organic and otherwise.
A lesson from Frank Zappa: "Don't eat the yellow snow."
Progressives have known this obvious fact forever; conservatives, not so.
"What has changed, other than who sits in the oval office? If there is truly a relevant fact I am missing, please enlighten me." ~~ "Rex"
"Rex" is totally disingenuous in his appeal to you for an answer to his question.
It's obvious what "has changed", and it's not strictly who's occupying the White House.
You've thoroughly and adequately provided all the relevant fact[s] he is missing, as he requested, yet not surprisingly "Mr. Paine's friend" has gone totally silent.
"Rex" and Mr. Paine are, undoubtedly, two peas in the same pod.
Taking the metaphor one more step, Vern certainly could be considered one of Mendel's genetically mutated peas. ;-] Neither will understand this, though, owing to their distrust and disbelief of science.
JTF is attempting to dump white nationalist panic alarms from Alex Jones. Seems the fertility rate of white women is lower than black and brown women.
Oh, oh. Bad news if you think only a white America can be great.
Just don't be an evil liberal and call them racists, or you will be "playing the race card".
"Seems the fertility rate of white women is lower than black and brown women."
Gotta have sex in order to reproduce. I guess women of color are just more amorous. ;-)
Real conspiracy! LOLOL
"I'm saving them to compare to the 'horrible attacks' suffered by T. Paine. I wonder how Mr. Paine would have reacted if we called him a racist prick and coward..." ~~ Dave Dubya
I'm looking forward to that post! ;-)
I know, who would have guessed "slush" could react so appalled and horrified?
Also looking forward to hearing Cohen's public testimony before Congress in early February.
Prophetic TV western, "Trackdown" 1958:
Trump: "I'm the only one. Trust me. I can build a wall around your homes that nothing will penetrate."
Townsman: "You're a liar, Trump."
Later..."You're under arrest, Trump."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs6UcgiDwg0&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0yWP7X4wrIJDMv3BnmL1epwShkmPALU4WGJuXGyQjTkUXfspFbf3BrfNI
LOL
Yup, that's our boy!...Walter Trump. Snake-oil salesman...
LOL
Gee, I'm really surprised "Rex" hasn't replied to you yet. He must be really busy!
;-)
I am sorry, JTF.
TB3,
For some reason JTF hasn't made any effort to convey his victimhood at T. Paine's blog. It's almost as if he needs mine for his tragic story to be told.
He is harassed, you see. For pity's sake, someone help that poor man!
And I also pity the bureaucrat who depends on survival by "eating out JTF's substance". That would be a starvation diet.
"...pity the bureaucrat who depends on survival by 'eating out JTF's substance'. That would be a starvation diet."
LOL
Say, is our angry "harassed" adversary still bombarding you with his uniquely-his love notes?
I suspect his government-funded medication has ended due to Trump's shutdown. Total meltdown...
LOL
"The buck stops with everybody!" ~~ Donald Trump, in response to reporter's question whether he thinks the buck stops with him
What a f**king imbecile. [head shaking]
If impeachment and subsequent removal from office isn't an option, and the prospect of invoking the 25th Amendment looks less and less likely, what other methods are there?
The President of the Deplorable States of America, along with the complicit Government Of Putin, has taken a significant portion of our civil servants, along with the remaining citizens of America, hostage.
Today's Day 21, tying the longest government shutdown in our nation's history.
“White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization—how did that language become offensive?”
No doubt the sentiments of Just the Facts, expressed openly by Republican Steve King.
Just don't call them racists. That would be "playing the race card".
what a coward you are Dave, you can not allow any posts that disagree your far left extremist Stalinst views. How very"liberal " of you.
JTF,
You don't say?
Dubya Derangement Syndrome, perhaps?
"...you can not allow any posts that disagree your far left extremist Stalinst views." ~~ Just the Facts! (aka Majormajor, and in real life as Timothy L. Trueblood V, or simply as "Vern")
Really? I say not so.
What Dave will not allow are abusive and vulgar personal attacks and name-calling. You do understand this, correct?
Do the words "perfect rectum" or "racist prick" ring any bells?
JG,
At least Vern proves low-information con-servatives cannot read, comprehend, or write above second grade levels.
And they are soooooo emotional, as if they were delicate little...what's the word?
Wow... another day and the same ol' crap.
You must be very proud of what you have built here.
Oh, and JG, I WAS busy. I have a life outside of the internet. Doesn't look like I missed anything in my absence over the last couple of days anyway. Same old tired accusations and rhetoric.
LOL
Hmmm... 🤔
"...JG, I WAS busy. I have a life outside of the internet." ~~ "Rex"
Don't feel so special, Mr. Paine...ah, I mean "Rex". You're not the lone stranger.
Now, would you care to comment on Dave's post. He answered your question truthfully and thoughtfully.
Now that you have honored us with your return, everyone's anxious to see your equally honest reply.
Rex,
Thank you for a moment of your precious time. You must be proud to be such an important person.
Accusations? Whatever would give you that impression?
Say, you're the smartest guy here, why don't you tell me what JG meant by: "Rex" is totally disingenuous in his appeal to you for an answer to his question.
You're not proving him correct, are you?
You cons just love to jump in and call us names, demand answers, and when we give you facts, piss on us.
Yup. That's just what America needs to be great again.
As you noted, "Amazing how hard it is for some (most) leftists to simply stick to the facts.
In case you forgot, due to your importance elsewhere, you asked me for relevant facts and I gave them. And if you ever care to read the facts pertinent to your question, you're welcome.
But shame on me. The lesson is clear.
You really do have all the answers, not to mention all the common decency, honesty, thoughtful ideas, intellectual curiosity, and other values of the American con-servative enlightenment.
Just like Trump.
But what do I know about ? I'm just a coward, a perfect rectum, a racist prick, and a dick-headed, fearful leftist who wants the US to be Venezuela.
Amirite?
"Say, you're the smartest guy here, why don't you tell me what JG meant by: 'Rex' is totally disingenuous in his appeal to you for an answer to his question. You're not proving him correct, are you?" ~~ Dave Dubya
Yes he is proving me correct - totally correct, as a matter of fact.
"Too Busy Rex" (appropriate nickname, don't you think?) can't possibly find a few moments in his "too busy life" to respond to your thoughtful response to his question.
But of course, there was plenty of time to complain by writing:
"Wow... another day and the same ol' crap. You must be very proud of what you have built here."
Maybe "Too Busy Rex" needs the time to appeal to "Mr. Constitution", himself, in order to make sure everything's said properly and correctly?
Yeah, maybe that's it. ;-)
Dave, didn't "Rex" ask the following questions?...and didn't you answer -- with a detailed and truthful response?
"Dave, can you please tell me why Democrats voted for better enforcement and wall construction in the past but refuse to do so now that Trump is president? What has changed, other than who sits in the oval office? If there is truly a relevant fact I am missing, please enlighten me." ~~ "Rex" (better known as "T. Paine", and more recently as "Unknown")"
Gee, did I miss his response to your response? I've read through the complete comment sections for your last two posts...for some reason I can't spot it. 🤔
JG,
Rex and JTF are gloriously demonstrating the far Right authoritarian disdain for facts and truth.
Their anger and hate for us depends on their BELIEF that they are right and we are wrong.
How else can they believe liberals hate America? Like the cult they are, they CANNOT admit the facts don't align with their beliefs and anyone, especially liberals, scientists, educators and journalists are their enemies for daring to confront their pseudo-religious fervor with reality.
His response, or retaliation, to the facts was, "Same old tired accusations and rhetoric".
Our studies of Con-servatism have shown Dismissal and Denial of fact and reason are common authoritarian tactics of discourse.
What we are doing here is proving there can be no good faith communication with these radical far Right ideologues.
As I have stated, we may as well be trying to tell a Moonie that their Republican cult leader is not Jesus.
And of course, merely noting this will engender even more of their hatred from them.
As FDR famously said of the "economic royalists" of his day, "I welcome their hatred".
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