The
avid exchange of comments in the thread under “Post-Truth Con-servatism” has expanded
our study of the American Right’s world view. I sincerely thank our con-servative friends
for their efforts to communicate their beliefs.
We've
explored how debate employing facts and logic, as well as reasoned discussion,
are so difficult for the far Right mindset. We've seen how they regard right
wing opinion as fact. It requires only belief, not supporting evidence.
To
encourage fair discussion and debate, I provided a little tutorial on presenting
evidence to support a position.
~~~~
My
stated position:
"We understand the propaganda system based on lies, blame, false accusations, bigotry, racism, and fear-mongering has been their tool for gaining that power...And most of all they are programmed to deny, demean, deflect, and distort what democrats, liberals or progressives say...We’ve seen it all over their media and in corporate media appeasers. “Brown invaders are coming to join the 'Democrat Party' to spread communism!” and "Libtards hate America and want us to be another Venezuela!"
Evidence offered to support my stated position:
Exhibit A:
“We have a society in which there are an awful lot of people who have no idea that Stalin, Hitler, Mao Tse-Tung all came to power promising the same kinds of things that Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is promising. And it led to mass murder, it led to dictatorship, it led to genocide. These promises are old promises and they invariably lead to bad things.”- Ben Stein
Exhibit B:
“All that is true, it’s absolutely true, but it’s not just Cortez. Folks, this is what the Democrat Party has become.” - Rush Limbaugh
"We understand the propaganda system based on lies, blame, false accusations, bigotry, racism, and fear-mongering has been their tool for gaining that power...And most of all they are programmed to deny, demean, deflect, and distort what democrats, liberals or progressives say...We’ve seen it all over their media and in corporate media appeasers. “Brown invaders are coming to join the 'Democrat Party' to spread communism!” and "Libtards hate America and want us to be another Venezuela!"
Evidence offered to support my stated position:
Exhibit A:
“We have a society in which there are an awful lot of people who have no idea that Stalin, Hitler, Mao Tse-Tung all came to power promising the same kinds of things that Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is promising. And it led to mass murder, it led to dictatorship, it led to genocide. These promises are old promises and they invariably lead to bad things.”- Ben Stein
Exhibit B:
“All that is true, it’s absolutely true, but it’s not just Cortez. Folks, this is what the Democrat Party has become.” - Rush Limbaugh
This
only seemed to confuse our con-servative readers.
Rex
wondered, “How is Mr. Stein wrong in his
statement?”
It seems logical fallacies such as "slippery slope" and "begging the question" don't register with our friends on the Right.
I explained: “This is propaganda. Stein is essentially saying liberals are commies or Nazis. Same old BS. Stein is ignoring that little “democracy” thing. AOC is not demanding the demise of the Constitution. In fact, she took an oath to defend it. Stalin, Hitler and Mao rose to power by lies, propaganda and brute force, not promises to work for public healthcare, higher taxes on the rich, public education, voter rights, and democracy.
This is classic fear-mongering and demonization. You see red-baiting as “truth”, because you want to see it that way. It is propaganda, you know.
In fact, there is NO link between public healthcare, higher taxes on the rich, public education, voter rights, and democracy to a communist dictatorship. None. Only in the fevered fear-addled minds of the far Right.
Your problem boils down to this. “Providing for the general welfare” is a socialistic concept from the founders. It is not advocating a communist dictatorship.”
I explained: “This is propaganda. Stein is essentially saying liberals are commies or Nazis. Same old BS. Stein is ignoring that little “democracy” thing. AOC is not demanding the demise of the Constitution. In fact, she took an oath to defend it. Stalin, Hitler and Mao rose to power by lies, propaganda and brute force, not promises to work for public healthcare, higher taxes on the rich, public education, voter rights, and democracy.
This is classic fear-mongering and demonization. You see red-baiting as “truth”, because you want to see it that way. It is propaganda, you know.
In fact, there is NO link between public healthcare, higher taxes on the rich, public education, voter rights, and democracy to a communist dictatorship. None. Only in the fevered fear-addled minds of the far Right.
Your problem boils down to this. “Providing for the general welfare” is a socialistic concept from the founders. It is not advocating a communist dictatorship.”
~~~~
We’ve
seen how far they bend words to fit their own definition. Our con-servative contributor
Rex declared, "Obama is just as authoritarian as Trump" for example.
“The authoritarian
personality you so despise is unfortunately not something exclusive to the
right. Obama was just as authoritarian as Trump is now. He forced a horrible
health care reform on the public with bribes to senators and treachery on the
behalf of Justice Roberts. Also, he insisted in no exclusions or conscience
rights for those that did not wish to provide for abortions or birth control,
like groups of nuns for God’s sake.”
My slightly edited response included:
“Yes,
Hillary is a liar and hypocrite. But she comes in a distant second to Trump.
This is readily obvious. Trump openly threatened her with jail in a debate
for God’s sake! If you think Obama was more authoritarian than that, your
understanding of the term is quite different from mine.
If you think Obama was "just as authoritarian" for wanting to expand health care, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. If you think calling Nazis “very fine people” is "just as authoritarian" as Obama, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. If you think calling black NFL protestors “sons of bitches” is "just as authoritarian" as Obama, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. If you think Obama is "just as authoritarian" as the man who denied he was our lawful president, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. If you think calling our free press the “enemy of the people” is "just as authoritarian" as Obama, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. “
If you think Obama was "just as authoritarian" for wanting to expand health care, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. If you think calling Nazis “very fine people” is "just as authoritarian" as Obama, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. If you think calling black NFL protestors “sons of bitches” is "just as authoritarian" as Obama, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. If you think Obama is "just as authoritarian" as the man who denied he was our lawful president, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. If you think calling our free press the “enemy of the people” is "just as authoritarian" as Obama, your understanding of the term is quite different from mine. “
Do
you think my evidence to the contrary registered with them? Post-fact
con-servatism dismisses and discredits all information that contradicts their
opinions and beliefs. This exchange also illustrates their tactic of
unilaterally defining terms.
Another
example.
Rex
stated, “Obama was a tyrant for violating CONSTITUTIONAL rights to freedom of
religion... nobody was imposing Catholicism or any other faith on anybody... a
conscientious objection not to have to fund birth control or abortion-causing
drugs”
My reply: “Um, yeah, it WAS Catholics and fundamentalists who got bent out of shape against insurers, not Catholics directly or specifically, funding birth control. Your definition of “Tyranny” is quite broad. Does it include jailing toddlers, too? No?”
My reply: “Um, yeah, it WAS Catholics and fundamentalists who got bent out of shape against insurers, not Catholics directly or specifically, funding birth control. Your definition of “Tyranny” is quite broad. Does it include jailing toddlers, too? No?”
As
is my wont, I offered more documented supporting evidence:
CBS's
Lesley Stahl asked Trump if he planned to continue bashing the media:
I
said, you know that is getting tired, why are you doing this — you’re doing it
over and over and it’s boring. He said, "You know why I do it? I do it to
discredit you all and demean you all, so when you write negative stories about
me no one will believe you."
(And the latest post-truth evil madness from the Big MAGAt finds him demeaning and dismissing his own department heads of intelligence as "passive, naive, wrong", and "should go back to school". Exactly what a post-truth authoritarian puppet of Putin would do.)
(And the latest post-truth evil madness from the Big MAGAt finds him demeaning and dismissing his own department heads of intelligence as "passive, naive, wrong", and "should go back to school". Exactly what a post-truth authoritarian puppet of Putin would do.)
There
you have it. Post-fact con-servatism from the Big MAGAt himself. Demean and discredit are listed in my
review of Authoritarian Tactics and Rules of Discourse.
Their
parameters and frames of reference are defined for them, of course. It is
assumed liberals, progressives and democrats are out to make the US another
Venezuela. This is what translates into the "liberals hate America"
and "Liberals are commies" conclusions.
Another
of their fictional parameters offered by Rex was, "The left pits the
have-nots against the haves".
To
their ideology, this confirms our "Marxist agenda". What they cannot
understand is we oppose the far Right wealthy interests that subvert our
democracy to buy politicians in order to write laws and regulations that rig
the system in their favor.
Many
rich people are not in that club, so it is clearly not "class
warfare" on our part. It is certainly class warfare on the part of the
Right's economic elites. Warren Buffet made that clear. "There's class
warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and
we're winning".
Buffet’s
words are dismissed, of course. All they need to do is simply regurgitate what
their propagandists say. That is a lot easier than understanding the true intentions
of their propaganda network. It is pitting have-nots against the
other have-nots. As Trump declared,"I love the under-educated."
Divide and conquer is the strategy, and it is made more effective with a
powerful media complex at their disposal. Having an authoritarian celebrity as
their leader is just icing on their cake.
Again
I invite Rex, or anyone, to offer reason, facts and logic that disprove this
analysis.
And as long they are a post-truth cult, they cannot do so.