Contrarious Con-servatism: Part Five

This final installment of our study of Contrarious Con-servatism returns to Mr. Paine’s characteristic con-servative pattern of evidence-free accusations. As usual he cites zero specific examples to support his case.

He makes up for it with a sweeping generalization tinged with projection, victimhood, and sanctimonious declarations. He apparently has decided it is “dehumanizing” to note the authoritarian and racist nature of Trump, his party, and their fans and defenders.

The shame is entirely on me for not calling them “very fine people”.  

I’d like to add context for his rather defensive perception and misunderstanding of those “relying solely on their amygdala”.  Not my wording, of course.

I have noted studies showing the clear inclination in conservatives of having more active amygdalas, the primitive center of the “fight or flight” mechanism in the brain. True to form, Mr. Paine projects this as “hate” and “wild-eyed propaganda” and “belief not grounded in fact”.

As with global warming, the scientific evidence supports my case over his beliefs. MRI scans have shown us this fact.

For those interested, Psychology Today has a couple articles introducing us to this phenomenon. They offer links to deeper analysis of the studies.

Enough with the rational explanations and references to science. It's time for Mr. Paine's final assault on the evils of liberalism and its nasty proponents.

~~~~~~~

T. Paine:

“I’m sorry you see only hate in my remarks.” ~ Dubya

Mr. Dubya, it has long been the case that anyone with whom you disagree has been labeled an authoritarian or a racist or relying solely on their amygdala, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum by you. Such is your first amendment right; however, it destroys any credibility towards objectivity and truth that you purport to have. The only ones that accept your assertions, theories, and wild-eyed propaganda at face value are those that already believe precisely as you do. And it IS a “belief” often times and not grounded in fact. Something to consider: Perhaps I see hate in your remarks because there IS hate in your remarks. You have continuously labeled those that are conservative or supportive of Trump as being evil or complicit in evil. Not only is that often demonstrably false, but it exacerbates the hate and indecency which you claim to abhor, sir. Dehumanization always ends badly in the world’s history.

As for illegal aliens storming our borders, well… what word would you use for a mass of foreign nationals attempting to gain illegal access to our nation, particularly by means of assault through throwing rocks at our border agents? I have no problem with labeling them as would-be “invaders”. What I take offense to is your consistent, persistent, and hateful penchant for always bringing race into a discussion when it is simply not a factor. At least as far as the issue deals with me, you are the only one that cares what color their skin is evidently. I am looking at the content of their characters, or lack thereof in this case.

“ ‘Lies of Russian collusion’? Again, no evidence cited.” ~ Dubya

How do I cite evidence of something that does not exist? Really? When did you stop beating your wife? Provide evidence, please.

Truly if there was any collusion with Russia, it was done by Hillary when she was Secretary of State, and her campaign in 2016. As for your oft cited emoluments clause, if any CREDIBLE proof of illegal (foreign or otherwise) influence via bribery, favors, etc. can be ascertained to have occurred to any public official, that official should be removed from office and tried for any appropriate crimes accordingly. This goes for Trump, the Clintons, or anyone. For the record, there was far more evidence of Hillary being guilty of this with all of the unseemly donations by foreign nationals and governments to the Clinton Foundation when she was still Secretary of State. But let’s not get bogged down in the facts.

“We the people in our modern age have access to more information than early citizens, so the founders electoral justification that there would be remote uninformed voters no longer applies.” ~ Dubya

I don’t know why I ever expected any acknowledgement from you regarding the additional reasons for the electoral college that the Founders established. It goes against the Leftist agenda. As for the public being more informed today, you cannot seriously say that with a straight face. I’d be willing to bet that most college students can better name all of the Kardashians far quicker then they could name the Vice President or the Speaker of the House today. (Let alone know about the merits and detractions of any legislation under consideration.)

 “When the leaders rig the elections to favor a minority in power, they are at war with representative democracy.” ~ Dubya

I agree. Unfortunately, at least in the case of gerrymandering, it is something that both parties are guilty of and have gone to great lengths to avoid crossing the line with it into illegalities. I don’t like it, but until we put forth specific legislation to eliminate it, it will continue. It will continue especially when the left gains control of congress once again, and then it will cease to be an issue for you… right?

By the way, Rhode Island was not represented because they CHOSE to not send representatives to the constitutional convention. George Washington had to threaten the state to even ratify the constitution. By the way, Connecticut and New Hampshire were also small states whose interests were supported by a bicameral congress insuring two senators per state along with the creation of the electoral college. I fully well acknowledge the evils of slavery and the influence it played in the writing of the Constitution with its 3/5ths clause. It is a black mark that was later amended. Pragmatically, that evil was allowed to continue at the time in order to form our union. Without that compromise, we would probably still be speaking British English instead of American English, and I hate spelling color and favor with a “u”.

Regardless, where true voter suppression, rigging of elections, and malfeasance of officials regarding vote counting (Snipes in Florida), all Americans should rise above party and stamp this out completely. Picture I.D. is not voter suppression. Making the obtaining of such I.D. exceptionally difficult should never be allowed either. I think we can both agree on these things.

Ouch indeed.

Oh, and for the record, I am indeed a product of public education, but evidently that was back in the day when teachers were actually expected to be experts at their subjects. History, economics, and civics were taught and personal responsibility was demanded and enforced. If we broke the rules, Mommy and Daddy did not threaten to sue the principal. They whipped our butts and grounded us. Perhaps that is why my generation has a lot more folks willing to provide for themselves instead of insisting that they are victims of oppression and needing of the government to help them.

Finally, I checked the status of my old blog and found some 60 plus comments on the last post that contained a lot of the same bilge as every other post’s comments, hence my desire to make note of it. Oh, and by the way, I am deeply chagrined that Trump and the cowardly Republican congress did not make deep spending cuts and attempt to balance our budget. If they had though, I am sure both J.G. and Mr. Dubya would REALLY be screaming about the evil Republicans. Damned if they do… damned if they don’t.

Mr. Critter, I am not a religious fundamentalist, by the way. I am a Catholic. You know… the church that was actually the founders of the university system. The church who had priests that were pioneers in genetics, astronomy, and even posited the Big Bang Theory. I help new inquirers into the Catholic faith through the RCIA program. One of the things we tell them, and I always specifically tell them, is to always question. Always research. Always inquire. It is by such means that we find answers and hopefully deepen our own faith and trust in God. It is a theme that is commonplace in Catholicism, especially today.

DANG! The Russians evidently have hosed up my account simply because I didn’t vote for Trump. They are not attaching my moniker to my comments again.

Hey Dave, look at how many people are no longer unemployed and living on welfare between Trump and Obama. Besides, with the hole that Obama had helped to dig, of course there were a lot more gains to be made then when Trump came along.

December 7, 2018

Dave Dubya:

Mr. Paine,

I have said Trump is evil. Disagree if you like, but by all definitions he is. I have also said those who support Trump wittingly, or unwittingly, support evil. Note that I did not say supporting Trump is evil in itself. Supporting a racist wittingly, or unwittingly, is supporting racism. Supporting a bigot wittingly, or unwittingly, is supporting bigotry. Supporting a liar wittingly, or unwittingly, is supporting lies. Racism, bigotry, and lies are evil. Thus unwitting people often support evil. This is called logic.

How can merely noting that Trump and many of his followers are racists be hate? How can noting those who have authoritarian personalities be hate. Do none exist? How can calling out hate be hate? How can calling out racism be racism?

Can you tell me how this isn’t hate?

“Yep, it is Trump, conservatives, and the constitution that they fear, while twisting and projecting their hate and bile as being products of their enemies. ..They are the true perpetrators of this cold civil war... He decries hate while spewing nothing but hate. .. the hateful racist crap Mr. Dubya continues to spew... “

Wow. THAT is what an authoritarian personality would say, whether from hate, anger, resentment, or ignorance. He would also demonstrate my point, “It is faith based, but authoritarian to the degree they accept what their leaders say it is.”

Trump is an authoritarian leader. Disagree if you like, but he is. He has many authoritarian followers and supporters who exhibit this kind of conformity of belief.

Exhibit A: I have no problem with labeling them as would-be “invaders”.

Dear Leader has insisted on calling asylum seekers invaders.

Exhibit B: Truly if there was any collusion with Russia, it was done by Hillary when she was Secretary of State, and her campaign in 2016.

Dear Leader has insisted on this false equivalence, projection, and deflection too.(Donations to a charity foundation are not personal emoluments like Trump businesses raking in money from Saudis and Russians and other foreign powers.)

Exhibit C: “The founders NEVER equated democracy with mob rule. This is a far Right con-servative propaganda lie.” ~ Dubya

Instead of citing where the founders equated fair elections won by the most votes with mob rule, we get, “So is this “lie” born out of Dubya’s ignorance or perhaps out of a leftist agenda… or both?”

Not helpful at all.

Let me help. The founders NEVER said elections that require the winner to have more votes than the opponent is mob rule. They are called fair elections. Fair elections are vital to representative democracy and the founders’ ideal of consent of the governed.

Fair elections represent the democracy progressives demand. Conservatives, authoritarians, tyrants, dictators, and the Party of Trump oppose them. Is this clear enough?

And yes, suppressing voters’ rights to fair elections is evil. It is the tactic of authoritarian tyranny.

Check out the massive Republican election fraud in North Carolina. It is evil. Or ignore it and blame progressives for being hateful.

As for the public being more informed today, you cannot seriously say that with a straight face.

The point was modern citizens have access to information the founders never foresaw. Obviously they can be fools and only trust FOX(R), Trump’s media sycophants and employment pool.

No facts were offered to indicate how “Dubya’s inaccurate revisionist history” was either inaccurate or revisionist. Sadly an all too familiar pattern.

Sorry, it is accurate that slave states demanded and benefited from the electoral college. Why would someone be so adamant to deflect from this?

Here it is again, complete with a founder who DIDN’T think a direct election of a president was “mob rule”! Shocking, amirite?

Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct national election of the president. But the savvy Virginian James Madison responded that such a system would prove unacceptable to the South: “The right of suffrage was much more diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes.” In other words, in a direct election system, the North would outnumber the South, whose many slaves (more than half a million in all) of course could not vote. But the Electoral College—a prototype of which Madison proposed in this same speech—instead let each southern state count its slaves, albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing its share of the overall count.

No historian would say this is “inaccurate revisionist history”.

But thanks for all the false accusations, projection, and deflections. All Trumpian/authoritarian tactics of discourse, coincidentally.

“hateful racist crap Mr. Dubya continues to spew”?

I take it you agree with your sidekick that Farrakhan is my buddy? Once again, evidence behind the accusation remains a mystery. I repeat. False accusation is another common tactic of Trumpian/authoritarian discourse.

I feel safe in predicting there will be no rational evidence based rebuttal to this. More accusations will be far more likely if an authoritarian tendency continues to dominate your discourse.

Payroll growth scorecard:

Obama’s last 23 months vs Trump’s first 23 months

Total hired: 4,850,000 vs. 4,460,000

Average monthly gain: 211.000 vs.194,000

Is this the “big hole” you say the Black Guy “helped to dig” in Bush's robust economic miracle boom of 2008? ;-)

Say, did you check out the real news today? Trump is a criminal. So are his goons. He and his "weak" lawyer violated election laws. More crimes will be exposed soon. He is evil.

But Hillary!! Emails!! Lock her up!

Jefferson's Guardian:

As TB3 already offered about the first round: Ouch again! Round 2 goes unanimously to the gentleman from Michigan.

To our Utah host, your debate skills are weak and unconvincing. If you hope to come out of this with any credibility at all, I suggest the use of more logic and reason; less emotional and unsupported opinions.

~~~~~~

Thanks to my dear readers for their patience and perseverance in making it through this epic battle of words for the soul of America. I hope you may have found some mild entertainment value, or even some use for the points made and perspectives shared. 

If nothing else, we have a clearer picture of Contrarious Con-servativism, and for that, I am am indebted to Mr. Paine, and grateful for his efforts to support his misguided and ill-informed ideology. 

And I want to add, despite his accusations, I harbor no hate for him, or any of his tribe. I hate their lies. I hate their hate. I hate their willful ignorance. I hate their closed-minded and false certainty of what progressives think. And I hate their willful destruction of the last vestiges of American democracy and consent of the governed.

While the far Right can never understand this, I hate the darkness of their ideology because I love my country and its people. 

Are You Still A Believer?

Are you still a believer in Trump? Because at adulthood it's marginal, right?

Happy Christmas! 

Contrarious Con-servatism: Part Four

Part Four of our chronicle on Contrarious Con-servatism brings us to a "panel discussion" of the topic at hand. This conversation is the alternative viewpoint to contrarious con-servatism. One notable difference in tone emerges between the two sides. We find a lack of unfounded, fuming blame and accusations of the others being "America-hating fascist/socialist/communist thugs who are not real Americans."

Yes, whether we like it or not, and despite their destruction of the public good and our democratic ideals of consent of the governed through fair elections, con-servatives are our fellow Americans. Many are decent, loving people within their families and communities. However, their political and public pronouncements of resentment and anger often belie their more benign domestic dispositions. They do trust and believe Trump, Breitbart, Limbaugh, and FOX(R), after all.

In comparison, our "Liberal rage" is rather tempered. Instead of simple vitriol and scapegoating, we discuss the history and pseudo-religious  fundamentalist nature of con-servatism.

With fair warning of rational, historical, and liberal bias ahead, we now let our distinguished panel members share their views.

~~~~~~~~

Jefferson's Guardian:

Dave, rereading Mr. Paine's lengthy monologues of opinioned meanderings - still accusing and labeling today's mass media as being a monolith of leftist propaganda, instead of the amoral corporate collective that it really is, not to mention his antiquated views of our schools and universities as cesspools of liberal thought and viewpoints -- I find it totally improbable I'll ever find any common ground with him.

These topics have been battered back and forth with him far too many times, and still he refuses to see and concede to reality of the corportisation and dominance of the media and our higher education system by the tremendous wealth and power exerted by Wall Street and the likes of Sinclair and the Koch brothers.

He's blind to the overhaul that's taken place since the Reagan years, or even as recently as when Bill Clinton ruled the roost.

The economy, and culture, has been totally transformed, yet he still throws around outdated terms like "liberal media".

It's hard to find common ground, more likely impossible, when there's not even a common language.

Mr. Paine should wind up his reunion tour and pull the plug. His songs are now irrelevant and nobody's listening to his outdated tunes anymore. He's ready for the oldies station on AM radio.

December 7, 2018

 Dave Dubya:

JG,

Mr. Paine believes he is right. He believes in conservatism.

Conservative beliefs are immutable because conservatism is a religion to them. It is faith based, but authoritarian to the degree they accept what their leaders say it is. Remember their outrage at deficits? Conservatives say deficits are an evil, but they quickly abandoned that stance if the rich and corporations get huge tax cuts, or they get their war fever agitated. The “law and order” party is now undermining our intelligence and law enforcement agencies to protect their Dear Leader.

Conservatism used to have a moral grounding. Family values, personal and fiscal responsibility, and basic decency used to be prevalent. Not so much anymore. Now In practical terms conservatism is entirely dedicated to the entrenched power of the economic elites and the upward redistribution of wealth to the ruling class.

That is their unspoken bottom line.

They often express outrage and victimhood feeling their religious freedom is threatened by having to provide service or do business with gays or Muslims. Yet many have expressed their opposition to Muslims or gays or atheists in government. As if they are not “We the people” too.

History has shown conservatives have never been comfortable with change or equality. They resisted independence, the abolition of slavery, women’s suffrage, and the Civil Rights Act. Not a very inspiring record. Now they have spawned a Trump Presidency.

Every system of belief has its own bubble, even progressivism, but the difference is one side is more grounded in fact, fairness, and science. 

They tend to think they know better of what we think than we do. They don’t want to see progressives also having family values, personal and fiscal responsibility, and decency.

Conservatism is about purity of dogma. None of it can be challenged, for it is as seen as absolute truth and incorruptible, as in Papal Infallibility.

This is why it melds tightly with the fundamentalism of the evangelicals. There is almost no fact, reason, or logic that can penetrate those who hold to political beliefs as absolute as their religion.

There is a reason a narcissistic ignorant brute like Trump can only get a cult following from conservatives. Conservatives are more authoritarian. This is simply a fact of human nature.

The most open minded, intelligent, less authoritarian, and decent Republicans have come out to denounce the cult of Trumpism. They understand it has become a cult and have left the Party of Trump.

 

Jerry Critter:

There is a reason that there is a strong relationship between conservatism and religion, particularly fundamentalists. Both are taught from a very early age to believe what they are told. Do not think. Do not question. BELIEVE! Believe what your leader/priest SAYS. What is said is the truth, not what your eyes see, ears hear, or mind tell you.

 Dave Dubya:

Jerry,

This is why I call modern American conservatism a cult. It is a belief system not to be questioned.

I have to laugh at the Right's continued fondness for their derogatory term for Obama, the "Messiah".

I don't recall ANYONE proclaiming, "Jesus sent us Obama to save America".

But for Trump, we see it all the time. IOKIYAR. We KNOW Jesus sent HIM to save America, amirite?

I'm also amused at their resentment for the dreaded NPR and PBS. I don't recall any Democratic president relying on them for talking points and propaganda, or being used as an employment agency like Trump does with FOX(R).

Look at the dimwit the Orange Fuhrer wants to make UN ambassador!

Once again, IOKIYAR. Hypocrisy and double standards are not in conservatism's vocabulary.

 

Dave Dubya:

I understand that, by being facts, this information will be deemed hateful.

Payroll growth scorecard:

Obama’s last 23 months vs Trump’s first 23 months

Total hired: 4,850,000 vs. 4,460,000

Average monthly gain: 211.000 vs.194,000

So far the Black Guy has made America greater than the LIAR who said the Black Guy was not American born.

Contrarious Con-servatism: Part Three

Part Three of our chronicle continues with Mr. Paine educating us on the dire threats of liberal hate, Leftist shock troops, teachers' unions, socialism, and communist Muslim racists. 

Oh, my!

Who can save America from this pervasive grip of evil incarnate? Seems Trump is the "only one". 

Alas, the poor rich white president is also a victim. Evil Leftists seemed to have fabricated lies of “Russian collusion”. Trump cronies lying to the FBI about contacts with Russians, "Russia, if you're listening...", and the Trump Tower meeting with Russian agents are myths, apparently.

Speaking of Russians, it turns out Mr. Paine's donations to the NRA were spent along with a lot of Russian cash donations to the NRA to elect Trump as well. "Real Americans", amirite? 

We do have the good fortune to have him share his deep understanding of the Constitution and the founders' "true intent".  Leave it to yours truly to point to the fact the founders actually had disagreements. We also learn that we obtuse libs cannot grasp the nature of what a republic is. Sigh.

I was informed, in Mr. Paine's esteemed judgment, that I am guilty of "spewing hateful racist crap and propaganda". I am also accused of promoting "revisionist history". Evidence supporting such accusations is absent for some reason. That's just how they roll. (We'll have to excuse Mr. Paine for missing the racially charged Nation of Islam/Farrakhan remarks from his sidekick that I previously addressed.)

Join us again, as we take on the critical issues of our time, and learn who is really to blame for everything bad in our country. 

~~~~~~~~

T. Paine:

Half of the time, I am not even sure with whom Mr. Dubya is debating. He references things that were not said by me and simply applies his Left/Hate filter into what he assumes his political adversaries “really mean”, all the while complaining that we put words and thoughts into THEIR heads. He decries hate while spewing nothing but hate. He decries the mean spiritedness of the GOP, and sometimes with valid points, and yet NEVER acknowledges this from his own beloved Leftist shock troops, let alone from himself. When this is pointed out, he projects his own snowflake victimization on the Right. Waah, indeed!

Next, I never mentioned Farrakhan, so again I don’t know with whom he is arguing; however, some Leftists are indeed communist Muslim racists. That does not make up the entirety of the left though.

Continuing, despite the hateful racist crap Mr. Dubya continues to spew with his propaganda, I never once mentioned white supremacy or “dreaded brown invaders”. Of course in the Leftist world where America is almost always at fault, we should simply welcome people climbing our border walls, throwing rocks and debris at our border guards, and simply open the gates and allow them asylum. Dispersing a riot on our national border with tear gas, as has been done for decades in such circumstances, even by Leftist messiah Obama, as a non-lethal alternative is an unforgivable sin to them. One wonders what the omnipotent Dubya would have the border patrol do? Lay down their arms and welcome these people in without any further consequences? Perhaps he can share his home with some of these otherwise law-abiding folks.

Moving on, I never claimed Trump doesn’t have an agenda. He absolutely does. Some aspects of it are even beneficial to America. (Perhaps that is part of their frustration.) That said, I agree that parts of his agenda are very bad. That doesn’t erase the fact that a vast majority of our schools are staffed with teachers that are incompetent in the subjects which they teach or are presenting their subjects with a decidedly biased leftist bent. That is not supposition but fact. The NEA is one of the most powerful unions in the nation and is comprised overwhelmingly of leftist teachers. Hell, even look at the curriculum in our schools and colleges today and your will see the PC and identity politics influence throughout. Hell, more millennials think that George. W. Bush is responsible for more deaths than Stalin, Lenin, or Hitler. A recent study showed more of them preferred socialism and communism over capitalism while being ignorant of the hundreds of millions of people killed under the former regimes just in the 20th century alone. Does that speak of teachers doing a good job in educating our students?

Next, Mr. Dubya realizes on paper that America is a republic but evidently has no idea what that really means. The founders structured our government with checks and balances and filters to limit direct democratic influence, as they knew that many people did not have the time nor education on the issues and candidates to always render informed votes if we were a pure democracy. This is why we have SCOTUS members APPOINTED by the president rather than elected. It is why we originally had our U.S. Senators appointed by our states’ legislatures before the progressive hysteria and yellow journalism of the likes of William Hearst prompted the passing of the 17th amendment. If we were to repeal the 17th amendment and have state legislatures appoint our U.S. Senators once again, I dare say we would have a federal government more responsive to states issues and rights once again, instead of the smaller and often redundant version of the House of Representatives that the senate has now become. (The House, by the way, was the only federal body where direct democratic elections were desired by the founders.) Finally, we have the electoral college as a filter in our presidential elections so that the potential tyranny of large states would not outweigh the small states in all matters. If we were to repeal the electoral college, as our leftist friends currently want, then presidential elections would be decided by only a handful of states such as California, New York, Texas, Florida, and Illinois. No candidate would waste time, money, or effort outside of those states. The other 40 to 45 states in the union and their wishes would be neglected or ignored. Of course this is okay with the left since most of the big states are also leftist bastions of socialism and failed policies.

Yes, we must always have the consent of the governed, but it should be an informed consent and protection of the rights of the minority cannot be sacrificed in doing so. These filters that our founders so brilliantly provided for us ensure that our rights remain for ALL Americans. Mr. Dubya should perhaps spend some time reading James Madison’s Federalist Paper 51, since Madison was the primary author of our United States Constitution. Perhaps then he will acknowledge the fear of our founders regarding the “tyranny of the majority” if we were to be a Democracy instead of a republic protecting everyone’s rights.

“The founders NEVER equated democracy with mob rule. This is a far Right con-servative propaganda lie.” ~ Dubya

So is this “lie” born out of Dubya’s ignorance or perhaps out of a leftist agenda… or both?

Oh, and to further discount Dubya’s inaccurate revisionist history evidently taught to him by leftist or incompetent teachers, the electoral college was not simply a tool for the “racist” south to gain power. It was done so small states, including in the north like Rhode Island and Delaware, would not be overrun in our government by large states like Virginia and New York. It was the reason we had created a bicameral congress with a Senate where each state has two senators, regardless of its size, while the House was apportioned according to the states’ population.

Of course we have intellectual bastions on the left like Joy Behar complaining about more Republicans winning senate races because of gerrymandering. Evidently she doesn’t realize that state boundaries cannot be arbitrarily moved for elections. Every eligible voter residing in that state gets to vote for their senators. And to think that Behar is “educating” millions of women that watch The View with her crap.

And again, I stated on this very blog that the Senate was wrong for not holding a hearing on Obama’s SCOTUS nomination. Evidently you are mad at other conservatives besides me on that issue.

Lastly, if one’s political opposition is ACTUALLY guilty of crimes that are proven in a court of law, shouldn’t that person be imprisoned? Or does that only apply if they are a Republican? I find it amazing the reasons the left will create to excuse wrongdoing of great degrees by their own while having to create lies of “Russian collusion” in an attempt to overthrow a duly elected president, WHOM I DID NOT VOTE FOR! Who is truly a member of a cult and lacking in decency there? Indeed!!!

December 5, 2018

Dave Dubya:

Mr. Paine,

Thank you for your thoughts. I’m sorry you see only hate in my remarks. None intended, but I sense you regard strong disagreement and information counter to your assertions, accusations, and beliefs as hate. No evidence based rebuttal was offered.

I never once mentioned white supremacy or “dreaded brown invaders”. . Not in those words. Your wording was, “the Left fails to denounce is the real foreign influence in our voting process, as millions of illegal aliens try to storm our borders...” Last I recall, those who “storm our borders” are invaders. Correct me if I am mistaken. This is not hate.

Right?

“Leftist shock troops” Really? Are they too, “storming our borders?” The accusation is vague with no evidence cited again. I have always denounced violence from antifa, and anyone else, but this fact cannot impact a cemented ideological belief.

“Lies of Russian collusion”? Again, no evidence cited. The Trump tower meeting with Russian agents really happened. Jr. was thrilled to get Russian info on Hillary.

Drama aside, let’s focus on facts, please.

After all this talk about the Constitution, I can’t help but wonder if you are familiar with the Emoluments clause...

Here is what we fought for, and what today’s progressive patriots continue to fight for:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

The Declaration of Independence valued “Consent of the governed” as our highest ideal, to secure our equality, and rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Sometimes our Constitution failed to meet these values and ideals.

The founders were people, therefore flawed. They understood the Constitution could also be flawed, and therefore open amendment, didn’t they?

The Constitution begins with “We the people”, not “We the wealthy” or “We the corporations” or even “We the states”.

We the people in our modern age have access to more information than early citizens, so the founders’ electoral justification that there would be remote uninformed voters no longer applies.

We the people are the governed. It is a democratic republic with elected leaders. When the leaders rig the elections to favor a minority in power, they are at war with representative democracy.

The Party of Trump has become “destructive of these ends”. The Senate is innately destructive to these ends. Gerrymandering is destructive to these ends. Voter suppression is destructive to these ends. The sabotage of Sore Loser Republicans in North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Michigan are very much destructive to these ends. These are all attacks on democracy, our right to representation, and the consent of the governed.

Nobody is advocating a pure democracy of votes on every law and rule. We accept democratic representation for this, not mob rule, as the radical Right smear machine would have us believe.

And...

The electoral college was forged from the pits of slavery, NOT Rhode Island. In fact Rhode Island was not even represented in the Committee of Eleven that fabricated the Electoral College:

Abraham Baldwin (GA)

David Brearly (NJ)

Pierce Butler (SC)

Daniel Carrol (MD)

John Dickinson (DE)

Nicholas Gilman (NH)

Rufus King (MA)

James Madison (VA)

Gouvernour Morris (PA)

Roger Sherman (CT)

Hugh Williamson (NC)

Seven of the eleven were slave states. In 1789 only Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Connecticut and New Hampshire were not slave states.

As noted by Time Magazine:

Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct national election of the president. But the savvy Virginian James Madison responded that such a system would prove unacceptable to the South: “The right of suffrage was much more diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes.”  In other words, in a direct election system, the North would outnumber the South, whose many slaves (more than half a million in all) of course could not vote. But the Electoral College—a prototype of which Madison proposed in this same speech—instead let each southern state count its slaves, albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing its share of the overall count.

Virginia emerged as the big winner—the California of the Founding era—with 12 out of a total of 91 electoral votes allocated by the Philadelphia Constitution, more than a quarter of the 46 needed to win an election in the first round. After the 1800 census, Wilson’s free state of Pennsylvania had 10% more free persons than Virginia, but got 20% fewer electoral votes.

Perversely, the more slaves Virginia (or any other slave state) bought or bred, the more electoral votes it would receive.”

Now for our common ground:

”Yes, we must always have the consent of the governed, but it should be an informed consent and protection of the rights of the minority cannot be sacrificed in doing so.”

Agreed. The problem is the minority is chiseling at the voting and representation rights of the majority now.

And I agree we have a problem with education. The Right’s ideological war on unions, teachers and public education is a big reason education is falling short. Often textbooks must be approved and edited by conservatives, not teachers. In Texas they are calling slaves “immigrants”, revising the Civil War, and erasing Hillary Clinton and Helen Keller from history.

December 5, 2018

 

TB3:

Ouch.

December 6, 2018

Dave Dubya:

I'm thankful for one last opportunity to share a couple points of common ground with Mr. Paine. I'm a uniter, not a divider.

Contrarious Con-servatsim: Part Two

Part Two of our chronicle of contrarious con-servatism features the "Common Sense" of host T. Paine. He sees hateful rhetoric from everyone but his Trumpist sidekick Majormajor. Time to "own the libs" and put them in their place, for only conservatives can be trusted to truly know what progressives think. 

Not only do conservatives know best about our shallow thoughts, they also understand more what our deepest fears are.

This has always amazed me, but I'm just a clueless, looney, hateful lib, obviously. 

Our history lesson from a Constitutional expert will prove enlightening. We will be told the founders considered fair elections "mob rule", or some such horror. We will be told that my facts and understanding of history are "revisionist", because, you know, only conservatives REALLY know history. Just ask 'em.

We will learn conservatives are better informed on current events as well. Take it from me, folks. The Right has ALL the answers.

Turns out Obama was a false messiah, and Trump is really the nation's savior. It's as plain as black and white, apparently.

Trump's wild lie about millions of illegal brown voters will be supported. We will be told of the Left's deepest fear and our sinister war on democracy. Trump's "invaders" are storming our borders to destroy our elections by voting with the liberals bent on...well Mr. Paine tells it best.

~~~~~~~~

T. Paine:

Wow. I walked away and left the door open for continued hateful rhetoric.

The religious fervor of these "non-religious" leftists is amazing. "We believe in nothing but political correctness, the power of the state, identity politics, and the demise of capitalism."

Everything to the right of center in their world is corrupt, evil, and hateful, while the left demands more of their debts and responsibilities to be paid for by the evil rich, which of course are all Republicans. (Soros, Bezos, and Hollywood millionaires are all philanthropists and therefore not subject to the evil rich meme.)

The left decry the ruination of Democracy at the hands of Putin and Trump. Being indoctrinated in liberal schools by incompetent or agenda-driven teachers, they don't realize that America is a republic and the founders were leery of democracy due to many inherent faults, thus they put in filters into the constitution to prevent mob-rule based on the whims of trendy group-think cretins that fail to recognize the ramifications of some of their actions. What the Left fails to denounce is the real foreign influence in our voting process, as millions of illegal aliens try to storm our borders to become "citizens" while holding on to their native cultures and denouncing the evil America that they wish would provide them everything from the womb to the tomb. (Assuming you make it out of the womb alive, with the "pro-choice" crowd's full embrace of the culture of death.)

Yep, it is Trump, conservatives, and the constitution that they fear, while twisting and projecting their hate and bile as being products of their enemies. They are the true perpetrators of this cold civil war. I pray that we can reconcile excesses on both sides, but especially on the hateful and destructive left, before this cold war ever turns hot.

I fear that the America we all knew may be doomed though, as the militant leftists have seized control of much of the media, the educational institutions, and the culture. It is hard to overcome the indoctrination and faith-based propaganda of these people as we have already ceded so much ground to them. Any word spoken contrary to their "beliefs" is labeled as hate. It is ironically an Orwellian world they are creating while fearing that the Right is guilty of such a creation. Prayer may be our only effective remaining weapon. God help us and bless our nation.

December 3, 2018

Dave Dubya:

Is Mr. Paine playing the victim again, saying, “WAAH! Mean leftist commies!”? It’s certainly an effective tool to employ when the facts cannot be credibly disputed.

Majormajor’s saying, “Your buddy Louis (Farrakhan)” is OKIYAR, obviously. Liberals are commie Muslim racists, donchaknow.

We see the usual white nationalist hysteria about the dreaded brown invaders, with children yet. GAS those little invaders!

More “liberal schools by incompetent or agenda-driven teachers” again. Trump has no agenda. Schools bad. FOX/Limbaugh good. Got it.

Time for a much needed lecture from our leading Constitutional Authority:

“...they don't realize that America is a republic...”

Yes we do. This is just another lie about us. They never tire of their lies. They arrogantly believe they know what we think, yet are incapable of understanding us, or debating with facts and reason.

A republic is “a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.” And how do they get elected again? That’s right kids. By voters in a democratic election, aka democracy. (a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.)

“the founders were leery of democracy due to many inherent faults, thus they put in filters into the constitution to prevent mob-rule based on...”

The founders NEVER equated democracy with mob rule. This is a far Right con-servative propaganda lie.

In fact the founders held the highest of democratic ideals and stated it openly in the Declaration of Independence. “Consent of the governed” was their ideal.

Then the racists of the South demanded an electoral college, and more representation for the slave owners. Three-fifths was their arbitrary value assigned to slaves. They demanded representation of these people for themselves, didn’t they? Yes. So much for consent of the governed. Many states have had an overwhelming majority of Democratic voters, yet Republicans own the state Houses. Guess what kids. That ain’t a republic. It is a rigged system of certain voters having more power than others. Like an aristocracy or dictatorship by the minority. Not a republic.

This line of reasoning and facts will be dismissed as hate, of course.

Our Constitution expert never responded to my question about the Emoluments Clause. I wonder why? IOKIYAR or Trump, amirite?

And look! More far Right dogma direct from FOX(R) and Limbaugh.

"We believe in nothing but political correctness, the power of the state, identity politics, and the demise of capitalism."

What could they say if they couldn’t lie about us? BTW, Trump personifies the identity politics of white nationalists. He has earned admiration from David Duke. (This will be called hateful.)

”Yep, it is Trump, conservatives, and the constitution that they fear, while twisting and projecting their hate and bile as being products of their enemies. They are the true perpetrators of this cold civil war.”

Anyone having Trump, conservatives, and the Constitution sharing the same subject is devoid of basic understanding of each of them. Emoluments again? Crickets. Denying the Black guy’s Constitutional Supreme Court appointment? IOKIYAR.

How do you tell a cult it was their leaders that first accused the opposition of hating America? You can’t. You can’t tell them anything.

What kind of ill-informed person would say the side with most voter support is “Orwellian”, as his leader lies constantly and demands imprisonment of political opposition?

Ya got me. Sounds like a cult member to me.

Just for perspective on how radicalized the white nationalist Party of Trump has become.

George H. W. Bush voted for Hillary. That is a fact.

He and McCain demonstrated the final acts of Republican decency.

All that is gone.