Trump’s Press Secretary Sean Spicer hit the ground running, quickly emulating the Orwellian Ministry of Truth in “1984”.
Not that it’s an issue of importance, just Trump’s ego, that his hands are much smaller... I mean his inauguration crowd was much smaller than Obama’s.
The Ministry of Truth had to provide “alternative facts”, in Kellyanne Conway’s words, about the inauguration crowd.
They’re jealous and upset that the number of protesters AFTER the inauguration was far larger than the pro-Trump crowd.
The national and global protests were massive. They represent "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
As with minority rights to vote, this freedom is a threat to Trump and his Republican rulers.
Suppressing the truth along with the constitutional right to vote are not the Republicans’ only tactics against the remnants of a free republic.
As I previously noted, dissent will be suppressed and viciously attacked.
Republicans are leading the assault for their Dear Leader already. Their assault on constitutional free speech is under way.
Our First Amendment rights are in their crosshairs.
Republican Lawmakers in Five States Propose Bills to Criminalize Peaceful Protest.
They even go so far as to virtually give free license to kill protesters by running them over.
And we thought Bush’s fenced off “Free Speech Zones” were bad.
Of course no fascist regime, and Republican Party tyranny, is complete without suppressing and demonizing a free press.
Channeling his inner Goebbels, Spicer said, “There's been a lot of talk in the media about the responsibility to hold Donald Trump accountable. And I'm here to tell you that it goes two ways. We're going to hold the press accountable, as well.”
Nein, Herr Reichsminister!
It does NOT go “two ways” in a free country. It does NOT go “two ways” under our Constitution's First Amendment in the Bill of Rights. A free press is NOT accountable to government.
Journalism is always the enemy of tyranny, and the Republican Trump Cult is no exception.
The far Right’s dogma and demonization of “liberal media” reflects the same scorn for a free press as the Nazi’s term “Lügenpresse” (lying press).
==
The ugly history of ‘Lügenpresse,’ a Nazi slur shouted at a Trump rally
Critics of Adolf Hitler's regime were frequently referred to as members of the “Lügenpresse apparatus.”... “Lügenpresse” (lying press) was an important component under propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels.
==
We recall the post-Trump-victory celebration by leading ideologue of the alt-right movement Richard B. Spencer, where he said, “Perhaps we should refer to them in the original German?”
The audience immediately screamed back, “Lügenpresse,” reviving a Nazi-era word that means “lying press.”
Mr. Spencer suggested that the news media had been critical of Mr. Trump throughout the campaign in order to protect Jewish interests.
==
Dear Leader himself is only too happy to lead the charge against our Constitutional free press.
Even the libertarian Cato Institute understands:
From “Trump’s Dangerous War on Press Freedom”:
By Nat Hentoff and Nick Hentoff
Trump’s outrageous attacks are only the latest assault in a war on press freedom he has waged throughout his campaign, and which he told a journalist at the press conference he intends to carry on into the White House.
At his rallies, Trump has frequently belittled journalists, whom he keeps restricted to a small fenced pen. He’s called reporters “liars,” low-lifes” and “dishonest scum,” as he singles them out for ridicule before the jeering crowd.
“We’re going to open up libel laws and we’re going to have people sue you like you’ve never got sued before,” Trump told journalists at one rally, promising to punish the publication of “purposely negative stories.”
“Donald Trump misunderstands — or, more likely, simply opposes — the role a free press plays in a democratic society,” said Thomas Burr, the National Press Club president. “Reporters are supposed to hold public figures accountable. Any American political candidate who attacks the press for doing its job is campaigning in the wrong country. In the United States, under our Constitution, a free press is a check on politicians of all parties.
“If we are to demand that other countries respect the tradition of a free press, we must also practice that here at home.”
But don’t expect any such demands from Trump if he’s elected president.
==
No worries. Trump is eagerly fulfilling his expected role in America’s Last Great Tragedy.
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130 comments:
DD
Do you remember when it was found out that Obama was spying on American reports?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Department_of_Justice_investigations_of_reporters
Oh I forgot, can't blame the black guy, right?
Chuck,
You mean "spying on American reporters".
I remember. We can certainly blame Obama for the wrongs he and his administration committed. I have also blamed Obama for violating the Constitution with his targeted assassination of American citizens without arrest or trial. He was also wrong for his failure to hold anyone accountable for torture, and the lies that Bush used to take us to war.
What we can't blame him for is "creating ISIS", as Dear Leader has done. ISIS was formed in Iraq in 2006 as a consequence of Bush's failed and treasonous war for crony profit and political gain.
As you know Dave, but apparently Chuckie does not, wrong doings by previous presidents does not excuse or make acceptable wrong doings by the current president.
Jerry,
Chuck would prefer to consider us too dim to understand, as he does, that no Republican has ever done anything wrong. ;-)
Dave, you provided links to four articles that spell out, very clearly, the foundation and table-setting agenda of this illegitimate administration and right-wing government.
Which will ultimately be to the dismay of the alt-right commoners, there will not be a new and prolific manufacturing base magically set down in the middle of America -- with millions of new high-wage jobs with benefits and pensions abound. This, and Biff's promise of lower taxes, was all election fodder for the underemployed, unemployed, and those who gave up their hammers and wrenches for spatulas and aprons.
He, and the GOP, needed a gimmick, a lure, to get into and entrench themselves in positions of power. It worked and now his work and that of his corporate and deep-state benefactors has begun.
Part of the true agenda: (1) Republican Lawmakers in Five States Propose Bills to Criminalize Peaceful Protest, (2) The ugly history of ‘Lügenpresse,’ a Nazi slur shouted at a Trump rally, (3) Alt-Right Gathering Exults in Trump Election With Nazi-Era Salute, and (4) Trump’s Dangerous War on Press Freedom.
As of January 20th, the next stage of the corporate coup d'état was initiated in earnest. As you referenced with the four articles above, an important and critical step in their process is the oppression and repression of lawful and rightful dissent. Once this is legitimized and validated as needed -- "to maintain law-and-order" -- the ransacking and pillaging of what remains of American treasure and commons will hasten, and the dismantling of our social safety nets and other civil liberties begins with blitzkrieg speed and surgical precision.
Keep fighting!
Dave Dubya: "Chuck would prefer to consider us too dim to understand, as he does, that no Republican has ever done anything wrong. ;-)"
It's part of his "con-sense". He's straitjacketed in the propriety of RepubliKlan decorum. It's even more important to him than the message and gospel of the Jesus he claims he loves over all others. Instead, he proclaims the words of the alt-right and its message of hate and inequality.
That's why he attacks under the pseudonyms of ArchieBunkerNYC, Micheal Stivic and Just the Facts! Rarely will the hatefulness, vengeance and racist dog-whistles appear under Chuck Morre or Majormajor. Those last two are the more prime-and-proper "Eve White" of the his multiplicity of personalities -- the ones that hide behind the good name of Jesus.
DD
Guess I missed your post or, for that matter, your posting a single word about about Obama spying on American reporters.
JG
You are a liar.
Here's video from Saturday's press conference by Sean Spicer, with requisite fact-checking.
The overall conclusion: He's a liar.
Chuck "Majormajor" Morre: "Guess I missed [Dave Dubya's] post or, for that matter, [Dave Dubya's] posting a single word about about Obama spying on American reporters."
I must have missed your post, also, Chuck. ;-)
Chuck,
Can't you accept agreement without getting nasty?
Guess I missed your post on Obama too. Did you agree or disagree with how they treated the press? Where's your blog?
You wasted your one shot at calling JG a liar this thread. No evidence provided, so it is spam from now on.
If you have nothing more to say on the topic, then wait for a topic you can address. We are not interested in your distractions, accusations and hate.
No more spam. Spam is not free speech. It will be deleted.
Act like a reasonable adult and be included. Act like an adolescent troll and be deleted.
Capisce?
Trump is a damned fool if he thinks that the press won't do everything it can, including making stuff up, in order to hold him accountable. Other than making stuff up, they absolutely should be holding him accountable. They should have been doing that for the last eight years too. The fact that they didn't is one of the key reasons why the Trump ascendency even took place.
The leftist bias in most of the national media is not only displayed in what it covers, but also in what it fails to cover. Obama, Hillary, and much of the left wing establishment benefitted greatly from reduced or completely missing coverage of many of their scandals. Trump won't be so lucky, and that is a good thing. Truly.
That said, your hyperventilation about Republicans curbing free speech is not altogether accurate there, Mr. Dubya. Reading the article you linked to described various bills that would punish those if these protesters partake in civil disobedience that closes highways or costs businesses in the area their livelihood.
Did you see the low life scumbag protesters that smashed business windows in D.C.? I think those store owners should have legal redress to sue the protesters for loss of their livelihood. Further, what if one of these sweet "non-violent" protesters happened to... oh...I don't know...let's say they started a cop car or Larry King's limo on fire and yet the streets were blocked so emergency services couldn't get there to put out the fire or assist anyone injured. Damned straight these thugs should be held accountable legally!
I have no problem with PEACEFUL protests. The time for civil disobedience though, simply because the left doesn't like the results of an election that THEY CREATED is nothing more than leftist crybaby whining though.
Suing for slander or pointing out when the press distorts the truth or lies is something that is long overdue. That is nothing more than yellow journalism, which often times seems to be the only journalism still alive and well in this nation. That said, the press is justified in pointing out distortions and lies from Trump and I am sure will rightfully do so.
Protest all you want, people. I salute you for standing up for your right to do so. HOWEVER, destroy my business or block the ambulance from getting to help an injured loved one of mine, and I WILL be the one in jail for clearing the path for the ambulance in an expedient fashion.
T. Paine: "The leftist bias in most of the national media is not only displayed in what it covers..."
Seriously?!? The national media is owned by literally a handful of corporate conglomerates now. There's no such thing as the "liberal media". Please spare us the outdated platitudes.
"Reading the article you linked to described various bills that would punish those if these protesters partake in civil disobedience that closes highways or costs businesses in the area their livelihood."
It also cites the illegality of peaceful protest and civil disobedience. These are rights, if I'm not mistaken -- unless you're speaking from a "con-sense" point of view.
"I think those store owners should have legal redress to sue the protesters for loss of their livelihood."
You infer that the businesses were mom-and-pop establishments. They weren't. Specific targets were limited to Wall Street banks and other corporate monstrosities -- most of which were responsible for the still lingering economic downturn that started under Bush.
"The time for civil disobedience though, simply because the left doesn't like the results of an election that THEY CREATED..."
Interesting and incorrect assessment. If you would have inserted "corporatist" (or neoliberal) in lieu of "left", I would have agreed with you. You're still living in a Republican/Democratic paradigm. This ceased a long time ago. You're sounding more and more like your buddy, Chuck.
"Suing for slander or pointing out when the press distorts the truth or lies is something that is long overdue."
The government may point out inaccuracies all they want. To jump on the Biff bandwagon that the government may sue the press for distortions or inaccuracies is just plain stupid. Please think about this. Sounds like more "con-sense".
Please excuse my incorrect tense. It should read, "The national media are owned by literally a handful of corporate conglomerates now."
You do agree with this statement, correct?
JG, I fully understand that the vast majority of the media is owned by huge corporate leviathans. The ownership has done little, if anything, in the reporting (and non-reporting) biases of most all of the national media sources. Nearly all are reliably left wing in their reporting, research, and even the stories they choose to tell. Respectfully, if you don't recognize the truth of this, regardless of their corporate ownership, then you are being very naive, sir.
"It also cites the illegality of peaceful protest and civil disobedience. These are rights, if I'm not mistaken -- unless you're speaking from a "con-sense" point of view."
We absolutely have the right to PEACEFULLY assemble and to make our political viewpoints known in public, private, and in group or individual protest. As for "civil disobedience", that is another story. By definition, civil disobedience is the disobeying of civil LAWS in protest. Now if those laws are unjust such as what the civil rights marches protested against in the 60's and early 70's, then civil disobedience seems appropriate and just to me. When civil disobedience is used in the destruction of businesses or shutting down vital thoroughfares simply because people are mad at the legitimately elected president, then that is NOT appropriate and they SHOULD be legally punished in my opinion.
Further, I don't care if the business destroyed was a mom & pop or a corporate Star Bucks. That is NOT the way a civilized public should change things. Destruction and mayhem, I'll state once again, causes people to lose sight of the message of the protesters and rather causes them to be seen as nothing more than the thugs they have chosen to become. If you have a problem with a huge bank or a Goldman Sachs branch, then work legally within the law to voice that issue. Smashing their building front or torching limousines or throwing rocks at police is not going to change anyone's sympathies for your cause. It should land you in jail with a huge fine.
Next, if you were to poll all of the protesters, particularly the violent ones, you would find anything from anarchists to anti-corporatists. You would find most all with a decidedly leftist political tilt (not just necessarily Democrat). What you would NOT find is a bunch of conservatives.
Lastly, I don't know that I necessarily want the government to have the right to sue for slander. I agree with you there in retrospect. However, when right wing institutions or private citizens are slandered by a LEFTIST corporatist media, then libel and slander laws should definitely be made accessible in order to hold the lying agenda-driven media accountable, sir.
And that is not "con-sense" my friend. It is common sense --- something which is rather uncommon these days.
TP,
Corporate media is the only correct term. All else is opinion. I also have plenty of criticism of corporate media too. And I agree they first created Trump the celebrity. Now they have created Trump the “Demagogue President”.
Journalists need not “make up” anything. You know as well as I do that behavior and words already displayed by Trump would have disqualified anyone else long ago.
“I believe that we have to be honest with the American people, but I think sometimes we can disagree with the facts,” Spicer told reporters today.
See? No need to make anything up. And come on. Trump spits our more lies in a day than your fictional “liberal corporate media” does in a year. They are accountable. He is not.
Corporate media has a corporate agenda. Profit and advertisers are served more than your own biased charges of liberalism.
Corporate media = Fact. Liberal media = Right wing propaganda.
You and the Trump people “can disagree with the facts”, all you want. But that is your cult, not mine.
Obama, Hillary, and much of the left wing establishment benefitted greatly from reduced or completely missing coverage of many of their scandals.
This is hyperventilation and con-sense. Corporate media parroted Cheney for God’s sake! That ain’t “liberal media” son.
And do you realize Hillary’s email non-scandal got more coverage in corporate media than ALL ISSUES COMBINED in the election? Perspective please.
Only misinformed Righties think this isn’t true because many of those “scandals” exist only in their propaganda.
"Only Right Wing media and the Republican Party is telling the truth. Liberal media lies”.
That is your contention, is it not?
the lying agenda-driven media is NOT "common sense" at all. In fact it is frighteningly echoing the same song as the Nazis’ “Lügenpresse” that I mentioned.
And let’s get something else clear. I agree with you. Vandals are vandals. They are NOT protesters exercising free speech. They are punks and anarchists. They probably never even vote.
Saturday we saw millions demonstrating peacefully. And not ONE of them said, “This time, we come unarmed”. Again, perspective.
Nobody howls louder than the NRA when any law about gun safety is mentioned. When our First Amendment rights are threatened to be called “economic terrorism” and the message is run ‘em over..long as it’s an “accident”, that should ring an alarm in anyone who professes fealty to our civil liberties and Constitution.
It is intimidation. It is criminalizing any protester who accidentally steps on pavement, or out of line, or even crosses the road. Can you understand that at all?
To paraphrase the NRA. “We already have laws against trespassing and vandalism.”
The point of the new laws is suppression. Put that shoe on the other foot and see what I mean.
BTW slander laws exist. Why do you act as if they do not?
I would also submit that con-sense is more common than common sense by the fact Trump is president. If not, then common sense makes little sense.
At least we share some sense. ;-)
DD
If you want nasty, go back and read what JG has said about Christianity, about conservatives.
JG is a liar, nothing nasty about that, that's just the truth.
JG lied when he said I "emailed Tom begging him to publish my posts".
JG lied when he claimed I said "black lives don't matter".
JG lied when he said he would be gone for a while to be in a protest.
JG lied when he said that he only spoke the truth.
I find it interesting how YOU take offense at my reminding you of Obama's criminal treatment of the press, while never denying he did so. So it's nasty to remind you?
Chuck,
Your accusations make you feel better? Can't let anything go, just like Dear Leader. You must get a lot of exercise carrying all those grudges and resentments.
And how about YOUR lies?
Exhibit A:
I find it interesting how YOU take offense at my reminding you...
What "offense"?
I agreed with you. Then YOU got nasty with your very ungracious "Guess I missed your post" derision. And you're doing it again.
Classy.
Nice for you to agree that Black Lives Matter.
We see Major Chuck deleted his "Just the Facts" response. Oops.
"Thin skin"... Remind you of anyone? Anyone at all? (Tweet!)
Chuck,
Your "Just the Facts" alter-ego is outdated. Don't you think "Just the Alternative Facts" is better suited to serve your Orange Savior?
LOL I can't stop laughing! LOL
Dave, if the time ever comes that you feel the least bit of empathy for our delicate "multifaceted" friend and decide to talk him off the ledge, please promise me that you'll think twice about it. ;-)
JG,
Heaven forbid! We need all of Major "JTF" BS to let us know when America is great again.
Day Four: "I'm a very big person when it comes to the environment. I have received awards on the environment." — President Trump, remarks during a meeting with business leaders, Jan. 23rd.
The president is awarded four Pinocchios.
What a horse's ass -- and a liar.
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows that 57% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Forty-three percent (43%) disapprove.
Great for America, not so much for liberals.
JG is a liar.
JG lied when he said I "emailed Tom begging him to publish my posts".
JG lied when he claimed I said "black lives don't matter".
JG lied when he said he would be gone for a while to be in a protest.
JG lied when he said that he only spoke the truth.
A Rasmussen miracle!
Only yesterday:
Thirty-eight percent (38%) of Likely U.S. Voters think the country is heading in the right direction.
Rasmussen numbers make quite the con-sense.
Chuck STILL offers no proof JG lied. That makes him the liar, of course.
A thin-skinned one at that, obviously.
Trump wants to create jobs bigly, yet one of his first actions is a job freeze. Seems a bit counter productive.
Jerry, his first action is to freeze GOVERNMENT jobs which we the tax payers fund. I frankly wish he would cut whole departments that the federal government has no constitutional authority to enact or fund. There are many issues that should be devolved back to the states from the federal government, including the Departments of Education, HUD, and many aspects of the Department of Energy as examples. I won't hold my breath though as Trump is a populist and not a conservative.
DD
Read your own blog for posts from JJ where I confront his lie and he refuses to retrat but instead says I thought what he claimed.
That is a lie, and you and he know it.
JJ is a liar.
T Paine,
Ditto your reply to Jerry. Liberals believe all wealth and jobs come from government. Government is their manna, and they worship at governments feet. Private wealth is just the source from which the government gets it's manna.
Chuck "majormajor" Morre: "JJ is a liar."
Jesus, Chuck, are you feuding with "JJ" now? LOL Why not email Tom and cry on his shoulder too? It worked last time! ;-)
"Liberals believe all wealth and jobs come from government."
No, but government always has to come to the rescue when capitalism falls on its face -- which is quite often, I might add.
"Government is their manna..."
There's not an original thought in that pinhead of yours, is there? You're not only a plagiarizer -- a thief -- but a poor imitator of previously coined phrases by Dave.
Forever the fraud, and also an imposter. That's so "Republican" of you. ;-)
Jerry Critter: "Trump wants to create jobs bigly, yet one of his first actions is a job freeze."
Yet not on military personnel. There's no freeze there. That's the side of "socialism" that Republicans and conservatives, alike, accept and embrace. If this empire wasn't bloated to the tune of at least $650B annually**, our unemployment rate would undoubtedly approach that of our worst year during the Great Depression -- possibly worse. As previously mentioned (in my comment prior to this), this is the Keynesian economics Republicans and conservatives cherish!
(**I say "at least" because it's unknown what's being spent on slush accounts and other "intangibles" such as the CIA, etc., etc.)
Liberals believe all wealth and jobs come from government. Government is their manna, and they worship at governments feet.
How would he know? He doesn't read what we write or listen to what we say. He has ALL the answers.
Yeah, everyone knows we liberals worship the Republican Trump Administration and Republican Congress.
Now Trumpies like Chuck are projecting the worship THEY have for their Orange Savior. In fact THEY worship military force and power. Their Dear Leader wanted missiles and tanks in his inauguration parade.
Remind you of anyone?
Their cult is built on lies, hate, resentment, and ignorance.
Example: Even after viewing photos of inauguration crowd sizes, they still BELIEVE TRUMP!
That is the definition of a cult.
Major BS is hoping TP will support his LIE.
So what does Chuck worship? The god he worships and serves is mammon, the Sacred and Infallible Free Market God of his world. He fears, lies about, and hates, those who do not share his cult beliefs.
TP may well agree with him, but with softening terms like Liberals "seem to" or "appear to" believe that. All BS and far Right propaganda. They must demonize those who disagree.
The authoritarian mind will never understand the non-authoritarian mind. It will reject the science and observable consequences that indicate the differences.
I would hope TP will come out and tell Chuck he is wrong. But that has never happened, no matter how wrong and vile Chuck gets.
The fact is cons are quite oblivious to what liberals think and believe because they have decades of lies, smears and propaganda that indoctrinated them on what their leaders want them to think liberals believe.
Chuck is our case study of such a lock-step, extremist ideologue.
JG is a proven, self admitted liar.
Just like CNN.
www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/crowd-size-matters-trump-is-right-it-was-huge/
Military not being frozen, after 8 years of Obama's failed War with no victory, only an anti American would want a reduction of our military during a war. Guess you didn't hear President Trump pushing contractors (Lockheed) to reduce the price on their products. Only a JG would admit to being less concerned about the safety of the country he lives in, vs his concern for socialism at any cost.
Government is the source of liberal manna.
JG is a liar.
Major Major says, "Liberals believe all wealth and jobs come from government."
I say that is an oversimplification, but generally true.
JG responds, "No, but government always has to come to the rescue when capitalism falls on its face -- which is quite often, I might add."
I say that government should NOT come to the rescue when "capitalism fails". Those failures are often time due to mismanagement or corruption. Bush and Obama in particular bailed out banks and businesses and saved them from their own foolishness with terms like "too big to fail". By doing so they set horrible precedents so these huge corporations know that they can take big risks or act corruptly and if they happen to fail, well Uncle Sam will come to their rescue with tax payer dollars. And as the cherry on top, Timothy Geithner of Goldman Sachs can then become your corrupt Secretary of the Treasury. That is not true capitalism, J.G. It is a perversion of it. True capitalism would let the market place dictate what happens. Those businesses would fail and wise CEO's would take note not to engage in risky or corrupt practices, lest their business follow suit.
Dave, Trump wanted tanks and missiles for his parade? If that is true, then that is indeed unsettling, to say the least. What is your source for that? I cannot believe that wouldn't have been screamed from the LEFTIST corporate media all over the place if such were a credible fact.
I say that is an oversimplification, but generally true.
Told you so. They THINK they know us, but have no clue. Only their indoctrination koolade.
"It may be oversimplification to say Trump and his party are fascists, but generally true". Or is the operating principle IOKIYAR? Thought so.
I have a feeling its only a matter of time until TP joins in on the Trumpian propaganda. From crowd size to hand size, from 5 million illegal voters to "locker room banter". From the Great Chinese climate change hoax to the...whatever new absurd lie put forth from our lame Dear Leader.
Conformity is almost a sacred value to the authoritarian mind.
Sad. Very sad, as Dear Leader says. Ignorance is strength. Welcome to Oceania.
Those failures are often time due to mismanagement or corruption Yes, and liberals get the blame, instead of the corrupt politicians, greedy elites, and the Sacred and Infallible Free Market God. AKA the mystical and beauteous "true capitalism".
Slavery was "true capitalism". Child labor was "true capitalism". The marketplace dictated so.
True Capitalism has no morals, no ethics, and no conscience. But it has its worshipers.
Capitalism needs regulation. Socialism is the remedy for failed capitalism. We need both. Fools, dupes and ideologues will never see this. Ideological purity demands blindness.
A "source involved in inaugural planning" was quoted on the military parade. But look at the words of Dear Leader and see the reason this is likely true.
“Being a great president has to do with a lot of things, but one of them is being a great cheerleader for the country. And we’re going to show the people as we build up our military, we’re going to display our military.
“That military may come marching down Pennsylvania Avenue. That military may be flying over New York City and Washington, D.C., for parades. I mean, we’re going to be showing our military.”
Dear Leader sounds just like a classic commie dictator.
"LEFTIST corporate media". How's that for one of those "alternative facts"? LOL Sounds like "True Capitalism" to me. The free market market god has decided it should be so, right?
The radical Right propaganda machinery specializes in propaganda by unilateral biased definitions. Communication fails when words and terms have unilateral definitions.
The radical Right cares little for communication. They seek total domination. And they have it.
God help us.
More bad news for liberals, Dow breaks 20,000!!
DD, I blame the black guy for not WINNING the war!
I blame the black guy for not WINNING the war... that Bush started and failed to win.
Got it.
And when Trump fails, the black guy will still get the blame, amirite?
we see a pattern here. It's quite black and white, isn't it?
Dave, is it oversimplification when you said the following,
"So just who really wants blacks out of the voting booth and on a plantation? Conservative whites. Same as it ever was."
...or did you mean that literally? You generalize all the time about how Republicans and Conservatives (and they are not always the same) hate the environment, are racist, greedy, and serve the capitalist god of mammon.
I agree that some do indeed fall into those categories, but not many. MajorMajor makes an observation about how the left GENERALLY tends to look to government to solve their problems and you cry foul. Interesting...
By the way, have you noticed how many Republicans don't like or support Trump? How many conservatives don't support him is even larger. I am one of them. (although I get lumped in your "oversimplification" of being part of the racist, science-denying, capitalist pig group which doesn't really exist.) I guess you need to characterize us as such though so you have a united front in the fight against the "enemy" conservative boogey man.
Once again, for the record Dave, I did NOT vote for Trump. I do not support him personally. When he does good things, I will applaud. When he does evil things I will protest. When he does stupid things like whine about crowd sizes, I will ignore the foolishness of it all.
"Conformity is almost a sacred value to the authoritarian mind."
Wow! Really? Which political ideology, conservative or progressive, espouses the group over the individual? Which group champions "the people" as a collective rather than protecting individual rights? Answer that correctly and it will tell you who operates with an authoritarian mindset. If you want proof, look again to the myriads of examples of authoritarian leftist governments in the 20th Century alone that were instituted for "the good of the people" all the while killing hundreds of millions of their own people. That dwarfs the puny 6 million that Hitler killed with his National Socialist Party.
"Those failures are often time due to mismanagement or corruption Yes, and liberals get the blame, instead of the corrupt politicians, greedy elites, and the Sacred and Infallible Free Market God. AKA the mystical and beauteous 'true capitalism'. Slavery was 'true capitalism'. Child labor was 'true capitalism'. The marketplace dictated so. True Capitalism has no morals, no ethics, and no conscience. But it has its worshipers."
Lord help us. You love to miss the forest for the trees and would rather find a way to continue to argue, wouldn't you, Dave? I know of no conservative in this country today that would find slave labor or child labor to be any viable part of true capitalism. It helps your cause though to champion socialism by demonizing a form of capitalism that no longer legally exists in America. For the record, I support punishing those that destroy businesses that are "too big to fail". Evidently Democrats give those business leaders jobs as Secretary of the Treasury aka Tim Geithner.
As for the Trump military parade, you have some anonymous source claiming it. You wouldn't buy that from me. Sorry...
Lastly, the only thing wrong with the term of Leftist Media is that it is redundant these days. The fact that you refuse to see the bias only proves how far to the left your political ideology is, my friend.
TP,
Let me remind you of the context of this truth laden remark.
"So just who really wants blacks out of the voting booth and on a plantation? Conservative whites. Same as it ever was."
That wasn’t generalizing.
It was regarding the far Right’s conformity in demonizing blacks voting for democrats as voting to be on a plantation. I educated you that this was insulting to many blacks. You CONFORM to the ideological use of the insulting and FALSE phrase.
Now for the truth:
Conservative whites started the Civil War because they wanted slavery. Conservative whites supported Jim Crow. Conservative whites opposed civil rights laws. Conservative whites to this day legislate voter suppression for minorities. It has even been settled in court. This you have ignored.
Never once did I say “all Conservative whites”. But only conservative whites are guilty of these racist actions. Sorry if reality offends you.
You did not define “true capitalism”. I did it for you. How does that feel? See a parable here?
You act like I said cons want slavery and child labor. I did not. Your amygdala is overreacting. You perceived a “threat” that was not there.
MajorMajor makes an observation about how the left GENERALLY tends to look to government to solve their problems
No. This is false. He did not.
What you’ve done is added a significant modifier in defense of his lie. You twisted it to CONFORM to your ideology. (Do you see a point emerging?)
Which political ideology, conservative or progressive, espouses the group over the individual?
Both do, and do not. I know, I’ve lost you already. Cons have difficulty with ambiguity.
Cons- Military, “United we stand”, Lockstep Party loyalty, etc.
Liberals- “We’re all in this together”, social responsibility, etc.
Which group champions "the people" as a collective rather than protecting individual rights?
Kind of redundant.
If the “people” are corporations and property, then cons champion them.
If the people live and breathe as individuals, then libs. See civil rights and voting above.
As for the Trump military parade, you have some anonymous source claiming it. You wouldn't buy that from me. Sorry...
Holy crap! You completely ignored Trump’s words!! I wish I could.
And speaking of Trump and conformity. Yes there are a few brave Republicans and cons who don’t buy the Don-con.
However. Look at how the party has fallen in line behind him. Look at how few dare question his lies.
And speaking of lies, I cannot recall you once saying Trump lies all the time. That is also conformity.
As noted previously you CONFORM to Trump’s science and climate change denial. (Chinese hoax or global conspiracy of evil climate scientists, take your pick. Same thing.)
“Leftist Media” CONFORMS to far Right propaganda.
Pop Quiz:
"Leftist corporate media parroted Cheney without corroboration".
Which word doesn't apply, does not belong, and is not needed? Can the sentence make any sense without one of those words?
If you're stumped, the answer is "Leftist". Imagine conforming to an ideology that can't see this fact.
And THERE is your conformity to bias, good sir.
Now an easy pair of questions for you.
Where do you NOT conform to Trump’s campaign rhetoric and agenda?
Can you indicate any lie from him at all?
"So just who really wants blacks out of the voting booth and on a plantation? Conservative whites. Same as it ever was... That wasn’t generalizing. It was regarding the far Right’s conformity in demonizing blacks voting for democrats as voting to be on a plantation."
OHHH, that is even more interesting! So when Chuck or I or any conservative says something about the left, it is never generalizing but encompasses and demonizes all Leftists. Got it!
But you tell me you weren't generalizing either, so does that mean that you think all white conservatives are racists? I falsely assumed that both you and Chuck were generalizing. I assume Chuck still is, (despite you being able to read his mind and tell me he wasn't) but I will assume that when you group conservatives together in the future, you mean it for ALL conservatives unless you offer a caveat otherwise. Thanks for the clarification, sir.
"Conservative whites started the Civil War because they wanted slavery. Conservative whites supported Jim Crow. Conservative whites opposed civil rights laws. Conservative whites to this day legislate voter suppression for minorities. It has even been settled in court. This you have ignored."
Bovine Excrement! You make it sound like the civil war was between the progressive north and the conservative south. I think political and social ideology had little to do with it. It was simple greed. Many southern slave owners saw their livelihood being threatened with the banning of slavery. They wanted to hold onto their livelihood despite the evil that they perpetrated in doing it. Do you not think there were conservative abolitionists in the north or politically liberal folks in the south? For you to pin slavery and fighting civil rights on conservatives is wrong, but not surprising. It was a regional cultural attitude. It does not represent the sentiments of modern-day conservatives. If anything you can thank the Republicans (moral conservatives) that saw slavery for the evil it was. They demanded an end to it to the point of fighting the civil war, marching with MLK for civil rights, and fighting against Jim Crow.
"Never once did I say 'all Conservative whites'...You act like I said cons want slavery and child labor. I did not. Your amygdala is overreacting. You perceived a 'threat' that was not there."
Okay, admittedly I am confused with your parsing of words, Mr. Dubya. I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier and assumed you were generalizing. You corrected me and implied that you MEANT all conservative whites. Then in the last paragraph you tell me you did NOT mean "all conservative whites". I am so confused. Which is it, sir? Damn, you are really good at this spinning stuff. Were you the one that helped old slick Willy with the phrase, "It depends upon what the meaning of 'is' is"? That was a brilliant piece of leftist subterfuge there, I tell ya!
"Cons have difficulty with ambiguity."
Perhaps. I think what we conservatives have a more difficult time with is that liberals (GENERALLY) don't see things as black or white, right or wrong. There is always gray and ambiguity in their moral compasses. It is why they can defend the evil of abortion and couch it in terms of "a woman's right to choose". It is why they can give money to Iran despite their being the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world so that they can further their nuclear program -- for energy, of course. It is the reason why they decry conservatives for being racist, and yet they tell people of color that you are not good enough to get anywhere without affirmative action or government assistance. Yep, being a liberal (GENERALLY) means never having to say you are sorry because anything they do is never wrong. Yeah, the results of their actions might be horrible, but their intentions were good and that is all that really matters, right?
"As noted previously you CONFORM to Trump’s science and climate change denial. (Chinese hoax or global conspiracy of evil climate scientists, take your pick. Same thing.)"
Really? I have been agnostic about global warming, climate change, or whatever euphemism you call it for a lot longer than Trump has been on the political scene. My reasoning is based on disputed science from reputable sources and some damning evidence from the pro-climate-change community themselves. That doesn't mean I "conform" to Trump's opinion. It means I had my own opinion before hand and Trump and I have some of those same ideas in common on this one issue. You believe in the goodness of some degree of economic socialism. Well Hitler also thought that same thing with his National Socialist Party (Nazi's). I am not able to make the leap that you conformed to Hitler's ideas on that issue. And yet, you are able to make that leap in reverse regarding me. Hell, that is impressive. You made a leap that not even Evel Knievel would have made, buddy!
Last, as I am now weary from this fruitless nonsense, I DO agree with you that Trump has lied about some things. Many of them have been silly and inconsequential, like the inauguration crowd size. I think I can assume that you would agree with me that anyone that lies about such little and foolish things would be likely to lie about larger things. Ask Hillary for example. It is one more reason why I don't fully trust President Trump. Yes, he has already done some very good things in his first week in office, but I am still quite uneasy regarding his administration. Does he lie about all things? No, I think that is not accurate to say at this point. I think some of the things you would accuse him of lying about are probably nothing more than a disputation of the facts or the situation. Frankly, I don't care. I didn't want Trump as president because of his lack of statesmanship, his vulgarity in the past, his lack of honesty, and his thin-skinned narcissism. Hell, we just got rid of a president like that. We sure as hell didn't need another one. Cheers!
"Conservative whites started the Civil War because they wanted slavery. Conservative whites supported Jim Crow. Conservative whites opposed civil rights laws. Conservative whites to this day legislate voter suppression for minorities. It has even been settled in court. This you have ignored."
Bovine Excrement!
Or so you declare, sir. Facts are facts. You adhere to Trumpian “alternative facts” to disagree with that reality.
You seem to forget what “conservative” really means. It doesn’t mean wise, fair, honest, or anything else having to do with positive human qualities. It means resistance to change and holding to the current system no matter the injustice and failure.
“It was simple greed”. Yes it was, although many greedy types never owned slaves. And slavery served that greed.
Equality, whether advocated by atheists or Christians, is a progressive concept. Ask the LGBT folks. It is good that some conservatives value racial or even gender equality. Again, it was conservative whites, or “greedy whites” if you like, who wanted to preserve the status quo of slavery and the other policies noted. That is by definition conservative.
Do you understand my point? I’m not trying to deceive you with clever lies.
To paraphrase Adlai Stevenson, If conservatives stop telling lies about liberals, we will stop telling the truth about them.
While I’m heartened to see you acknowledge Trump’s dishonesty, you had to equate him with Obama. You can’t help yourself. I understand that.
"Cons have difficulty with ambiguity."
Perhaps. I think what we conservatives have a more difficult time with is that liberals (GENERALLY) don't see things as black or white, right or wrong. There is always gray and ambiguity in their moral compasses
Great example of absolutism. Liberals actually do see see right and wrong, and in between.
It is called wisdom to discern these aspects of ambiguity. It is wrong to insult blacks with the "plantation meme", but cons cannot accept that in their "flexible moral compass". Don't feel bad, it's human nature.
Another example is Chuck's willingness to "do wrong for the right reason".
Here's my gray area. I personally oppose abortion. I also oppose Big Government mandating a woman coming to term despite health risks and damage to the fetus, and the authority claimed, by conservative men only, to make the determination for women. That is wrong on the face of it. Why this is so would be another discussion.
You believe in the goodness of some degree of economic socialism. Well Hitler also thought that same thing
How did you put it? "You made a leap that not even Evel Knievel would have made, buddy!"
There you go again. Your overactive amygdala wants to conflate liberals with both Stalin and Hitler, yet it was Bush the “compassionate conservative” who started a war based on falsehoods, spied on Americans, and sent people to a gulag without charge or conviction.
If we support Medicare, unemployment insurance, public health, food stamps, and Social Security, as most American do, then do you and I also “agree with Hitler”?
That is of course as ludicrous as the radical Right’s crazed belief that liberal support of Medicare, unemployment insurance, public health, food stamps, and Social Security is Stalinism.
It borders on hysteria. But I understand. I've studied the authoritarian personality in books and in life.
Please understand this. I am not "pro-climate change". Who is?
In fact I wish the deniers were right. But I know better than to trust Big Oil PR and the Republican Party, over a clear scientific consensus...as we enter yet another year of record heat, increased ocean temperatures, thawing permafrost, lowest level of Arctic sea ice, receding glaciers, and for many a first, a January with NO SNOW.
How'd the Chinese pull that off anyway? Or was it those devious manipulators at East Anglia?
And by the way. I agree with Trump on TPP. So does Bernie. Does that make Trump a commie? ;-)
Since you evidently missed this part of what I said, I'll post it again:
"I am not able to make the leap that you conformed to Hitler's ideas on that issue." [of socialism]
See? I was NOT equating you to Hitler despite the fact that you both see the usefulness of some socialistic policies. I used that comparison to show you how ludicrous it was that simply because I am agnostic about anthropogenic climate change that I did NOT "conform to Trump's views on it". We have some common grounds of agreement. I did not conform to his views. You and Hitler had common grounds on socialism. You are hardly a Nazi or a sympathizer with that evil cause. THAT was my point. I was simply trying to illustrate your absurdity by providing that absurd example. It was not an epithet against you.
As for the rest of your comment, I will have to address that later when I have time and a better attitude for dealing with it, my friend.
My goodness, President Trump has done more to protect America, enrich America, and benefit America in 5 days than whats-his-name did in 8 years!!! Further, Trump appears to be the first president in decades who keeps his promises! Obama promised "shovel ready jobs," "immigration reform in his first 100 days," and "if you like your doctor." ALL LIES! Trump promised to end illegal immigration and a wall, and I feel so much safer with him as our president!!
"And when Trump fails, the black guy will still get the blame, amirite?
we see a pattern here. It's quite black and white, isn't it?"
Yup, it's all about race isn't it DD, your last hope of rebuttal is to play the race card.
Sad
Or os it projection DD or your fond hope that we continue to lose the war, you tell us.
TP,
You're right. I misinterpreted the Nazi crap as the usual "Liberals and Hitler are socialists" demonization.
I agree you did not conform to Trump on climate change.
Chuck,
What's that you say about lies? Three to five million Mexicans slipped into the polls to vote for Hillary?
Yup. That's what I hear. And Mexico will pay for the wall...after we do first?
Yup. I heard that too.
Got another?
DD,,
Let's get some facts straight here.
Trump never said the word Mexicans, but you did, in your typical paint it in race world.
Next you need to learn how to quote the President accurately instead of putting words in his mouth, your favorite thing to do.
I will be asking for a major investigation into VOTER FRAUD, including those registered to vote in two states, those who are illegal and....
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 25, 2017
even, those registered to vote who are dead (and many for a long time). Depending on results, we will strengthen up voting procedures!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 25, 2017
Don't you find it odd DD, that you were claiming the Russians gave Trump the election just a few weeks ago, and now what are you claiming?
Then there is your typical problem with real numbers, "Democratic-nominee Hillary
Clinton beat Trump by nearly 3 million" NBC, not the 3 to 5 million you (again) incorrectly published.
In reality DD, you, democrats, socialists, social warriors and liberals should be as, H.H. Humphrey said, "pleased as punch" that the President is going launch to a major investigation into VOTER FRAUD. You're not afraid of that are you?
Chuck,
While it amuses me that you wish to "get some facts straight", I was alluding to lies.
I embellished Trump's lie with Mexicans, because IOKIYAR to be registered in two states, amirite?
Steven Mnuchin, Steve Bannon and Donald Trump's youngest daughter, Tiffany Trump, all registered to vote in two states, records show.
http://fortune.com/2017/01/25/mnuchin-bannon-voting-registration/
Or is that the "voter fraud" Trump is going after? It's not voter fraud. Neither is dead people on the rolls. What, or who, does that leave? Mexicans is my guess. How about you?
Trump is a liar. Even you buddy TP admits it.
Trump's people said there were no problems with the vote when Stein wanted a recount.
What happened since then?
So the question becomes, "What voter fraud?"
Trump won't tell us the source of his wacky belief.
DD
"I was alluding to lies."
You talking about your buddy JG again?
I see we agree that an investigation into voter fraud will solve this question once and for all, right?
Your guessing is not what was said by President Trump, deal with what is known, find out what is the unknown instead of guessing.
More bad news for liberals,
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 59% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Forty-one percent (41%) disapprove.
Trump told Congressional leaders 3-5 million 'illegals' cost him the popular vote. That is a lie. He offered no evidence, because there is no evidence.
So the question is "What voter fraud?"
Since Steven Mnuchin, Steve Bannon and Donald Trump's youngest daughter, Tiffany Trump, all registered to vote in two states, so we know he doesn't really mean those who registered in two states. Dead people didn't show up, so that leaves "illegals".
I just clarified his lie to include "Mexicans".
We recall Bush's and Rove's crusade against "voter fraud". Bush fired US Attorneys for failing to prosecute non-existent cases of voter fraud.
So where do these "millions" come from?
An authoritarian liar's mouth. Now the lie spews from the authoritarian's true believer followers.
Just like this lie.
"Liberals believe all wealth and jobs come from government." Once spoken, must be believed. It must be defended from reality at all costs.
Conformity is a con-servative (authoritarian) value. Even in lies. This is why con-servatism is a threat to freedom, peace and prosperity. Dear Leader has lied every day in office.
Cons will never understand liberals as much as we understand them.
It takes an open and curious mind. Those who think, "Liberals believe all wealth and jobs come from government", even after being told they are in error by liberals, have neither a curious nor open mind.
"Shut up, we know you better than YOU do." That is their vile, dishonest, hateful authoritarian message.
No wonder they adhere to insulting blacks with their "plantation" meme. They don't care that their dishonest hateful words poison our culture and divide us to be pillaged by the powerful.
The darkness of authoritarianism has taken our country.
They. Don't. Care.
Their politics is their religion. I'm not kidding. That is how deeply entrenched their false beliefs, and utter disrespect for dissent for their ideology, are held.
Chuck quotes the Republican Poll.
To be fair and balanced we have Gallup:
President Donald Trump is the first elected president in Gallup's polling history to receive an initial job approval rating below the majority level. He starts his term in office with 45% of Americans approving of the way he is handling his new job, 45% disapproving and 10% yet to form an opinion. Trump now holds the record for the lowest initial job approval rating as well as the highest initial disapproval rating in Gallup surveys dating back to Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Let's just be clear. It is NOT VOTER FRAUD TO BE:
1. Registered to vote in more than one state.
2. Registered to vote while dead.
3. Being in the US illegally.
Jerry,
You know this reality. I know this reality. Trumpies don't care. Dear Leader cannot be questioned.
It's a cult. No other word fits them.
Disagreeing with Dear Leader will eventually be called treason, like under Bush. "You're either with us or against us".
That is the ugly face of authoritarianism.
Dave, thank you (sincerely) for acknowledging that I did not compare you to Hitler and realizing that my views on global warming are not a matter of conforming to Trump's.
As for voter fraud, I don't know if it is illegal to be registered in more than one state, but I do know it is illegal to vote in more than one state. Often times I think most such folks have simply moved from one state to another and have not removed their name from the voting rolls from their previous state. I would hope that such is the case for Trump's cabinet and family. Regardless, they should be setting the example and fixing that problem so that there is not even the semblance of impropriety there.
As for the dead on the voting rolls, well it is well known that the dead "vote" in some areas of the country that are not as legal-minded as the rest of us. Hell, that's how I finally came to believe bin Laden was really dead, because he registered to vote in Chicago for the last election. :)
Surely, Dave, you don't have any objections to cleaning up the voter registration rolls so that only those legally authorized citizens are the one's actually voting, do you? And please don't go off on a tangent about voter suppression. I agree that polls should be convenient and with the same hours for ALL locations in each district.
Do I think Trump lost the popular vote because 3 million illegal aliens voted? Nope. I think that is Trump's ego making him out to be a damned fool once again. Do some illegal aliens vote in our country? Yep, I am sure they do. It would be a good idea to figure out how to stop this and all other forms of voter fraud so that only American citizens' voices are heard in our American election. Don't you agree?
"Bush fired US Attorneys for failing to prosecute non-existent cases of voter fraud."
Actually there were cases. If we would make examples of those perpetrating voter fraud perhaps there would be less of it. Also, the US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president. He was well within his right to fire those that refused to follow his constitutional orders in making sure the laws were faithfully executed. Bill Clinton fired many US Attorney's too, but didn't do so many in one fell swoop like Bush did, so I guess that was okay to the "non-biased media".
Dave, you call Trump an authoritarian leader. He may very well turn out to be one, I reasonably fear. That said, you wouldn't dream of calling Obama an authoritarian leader. Trump has only SAID foolish things that could be construed as authoritarian. I can think of no actions to follow that thus far. Obama, on the other hand, was authoritarian with his HHS mandate, (among other things) that usurped our FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT to the free exercise of our worship by stating that even nuns in their convent must have health insurance that provides for contraception and abortifacients. When someone infringes on our constitutional and human rights by mandate, THAT is authoritarian, my friend.
"The darkness of authoritarianism has taken our country."
Yes, and it did so long before Trump. When people have problems and look to government to solve it, that is when authoritarianism gains a foothold. The fact that people give Obama good approval rating while having NO meaningful accomplishments in eight years is the first clue. The fact that they ignored some very bright and talented candidates and yet elected Trump as president is a sign that this disease may be metastasizing. You don't like it when Trump speaks that way. I don't like it when anyone speaks OR ACTS that way, regardless of party.
Finally, my faith and religion are directed towards God, and Him alone. I know people get upset with politics and take it very seriously, as we all should; however, if any group makes a religion out of politics and political beliefs, I would submit to you that it is the far left. Many of those well-meaning folks have no belief in God, but they believe with all religious fervor in climate change, gay rights, and abortion. THAT is their beliefs to the point of making it their god, sir. That is why they are so enraged when the right wants to protect unborn life or doesn't buy the disputed science of climate change. The far left howls in rage and uses Alinsky tactics to demonize, belittle, and marginalize we unscientific hicks accordingly. They are defending their "god".
Last, I could care less what Trump's approval rating is currently. So far, he has done some very good things though. We will see if the good outweighs the bad in the long run. I would caution you however, Dave, as I suspect a majority of folks probably approve of Trump and that is not reflected in these polls. Those same polls showed Hillary winning the election walking away. If you trust in those polls, you will be really pissed when Trump wins re-election, sir.
TP,
It occurs to me there is another great difference between liberals and conservatives.
Liberals who trust science(and their "lying eyes") over corporate PR on climate change would actually be happy to be proven wrong. Same with Trump. If he "makes America Great" then he would deserve another term.
However...as Wendell Berry put it:
“Whether we and our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory, and a sterner sense of justice than we do.”
He was correct on this one:
"The two great aims of industrialism - replacement of people by technology and concentration of wealth into the hands of a small plutocracy - seem close to fulfillment."
TP,
Dave, you call Trump an authoritarian leader. He may very well turn out to be one, I reasonably fear.
Your fear is well grounded.
Trump ordered the CIA to re-institute "black sites" where torture was done in secret without accountability. Trump has advocated torture, saying, "Does torture work? Yes, absolutely."
Perhaps you have seen Trump telling the CIA he wants to pillage Iraqi oil, a clear war crime.
You've seen him try to bully Mexico into paying for his damn wall.
If this is not authoritarianism, and insurance provisions for birth control are, then we have widely disparate understandings of what authoritarianism is.
Yes Jerry
It is NOT VOTER FRAUD TO BE:
1. Registered to vote in more than one state.
2. Registered to vote while dead.
3. Being in the US illegally.
But it is if you vote in any of the above.
With all the crying from the Left about Russia and the election, I find it strange that the Left is now seems afraid to investigate the claims of voter fraud. Wonder why that is?
I also find it laughable that DD questions Rasmussen polling data, when it Rasmussen who in OCT of 2016 gave Trump a 2 point lead over HRC. Gallup on the other hand had HRC beating President Trump. So who do you think was more correct?
DUH, Rasmussen was.
The left continues to become unhinged.
Voter fraud has been investigated, many times, bigly, and virtually nothing has been found. The problem is voter suppression, not fraud.
Trump a 2 point lead over HRC?
He lost the popular vote. Most Americans don't want his tyranny of the minority.
crying from the Left about Russia? It was the intelligence agencies that say Russia interfered. And they did so at Dear Leader's invitation.
Dear Leader then whined it was like "Nazi Germany". Putin won the election with zero votes.
afraid to investigate the claims of voter fraud
So the unanswered question is "What voter fraud?"
"Claims of voter fraud" from the racist liar who denied for years the Black president was a citizen?
Better unhinged that a cult conformist.
Here is proof of voter fraud that I have given to Dave in the past and he has largely discounted it: all 462 cases of it and 742 criminal convictions thus far.
http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2015/pdf/VoterFraudCases-8-7-15-Merged.pdf
TP,
Nobody said voter fraud never existed.
How exactly did I "discount it", if you don't mind explaining.
Note these are from a 20 year history and the vast majority are not impersonation fraud, which is indeed quite rare.
Am I correct?
Now you just need to show a few million more please. ;-)
Are you agreeing with Trump again?
"The problem is voter suppression, not fraud."
Great! The investigation should uncover that as well, now whats the problem with doing one?
Let's see how many voters were suppressed from voting, 5 million, 10 million.
DD
Guess the investigation will clear all that up for you, right?
No I don't agree with Trump that 3 million illegals voted, if that is what you mean.
What is sad is that there are a lot more cases of fraud which never were investigated, let alone prosecuted... especially under Obama.
Tampering with registrations, impersonations, double voting, ineligible voting etc. should not be allowed under any circumstances. Having some kind of identification would help to ensure that, but somehow that is tantamount to racism according to the left.
Trump did not win the popular vote. I could not care less. He did win the constitutionally stipulated electoral vote though, so he is legitimately the president whether you or I like it or not.
Regardless we should work together to ensure that only eligible Americans vote in any election and that are safety and security are enhanced by making sure we know who is coming across our borders. Surely you must agree with that, Dave .... right?
TP,
I respect your judgment and refusal to conform to a Trump lie. Chuck has no choice as a loyal Republican and an authoritarian follower. You have some of the independence of thought he lacks.
Of course I am opposed to illegal voting and illegal immigration.
I am also opposed to the GOP's dirty vote suppression. I'm not talking about IDs. Limiting number of polling places, restricting times to vote, burdensome registration restrictions, purging eligible voters, etc.have all been used as vote suppression by white conservative Republicans. Courts have adjudicated against their targeting of minorities. A number of Republicans have admitted their intent to suppress votes. I've shown documentation of these facts.
Did you miss my list of Trump's authoritarian actions? It will only get worse, I'm afraid.
Watch Obama's approval ratings soar even higher than they are now. He will be missed.
Obama may be many things, but he is not the sociopath and serial liar Dear Leader is.
It's going to hit the fan. If not, I will be only too happy to admit I am wrong.
As far as I know, Trump has said NOTHING about investigating voter suppression. If you information to the contrary, I would like to see it.
Jerry Critter: "Voter fraud has been investigated, many times, bigly, and virtually nothing has been found. The problem is voter suppression, not fraud.
Agreed.
Chuck "Majormajor" Morre: "The investigation should uncover that as well, now whats the problem with doing one?"
The problem with Republicans, investigating anything, is they ignore crucial evidence when it doesn't support their already preconceived notions.
I keep wondering why Trump continues to campaign. Is he questioning his own legitimacy?
UH OH!
www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/26/hillary-clinton-received-800000-votes-from-nonciti/
Hillary Clinton garnered more than 800,000 votes from noncitizens on Nov. 8, an approximation far short of President Trump’s estimate of up to 5 million illegal voters but supportive of his charges of fraud.
"Political scientist Jesse Richman of Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, has worked with colleagues to produce groundbreaking research on noncitizen voting, and this week he posted a blog in response to Mr. Trump’s assertion.
Based on national polling by a consortium of universities, a report by Mr. Richman said 6.4 percent of the estimated 20 million adult noncitizens in the U.S. voted in November. He extrapolated that that percentage would have added 834,381 net votes for Mrs. Clinton, who received about 2.8 million more votes than Mr. Trump. Mr. Richman calculated that Mrs. Clinton would have collected 81 percent of noncitizen votes."
Any idea why the democrats didn't demand an voter suppression investigation while Obama was in office? Could it be it's not a problem when they don't lose, and a ready made excuse when they do?
Regardless of Mr. Richman's study, could it be the democrats are scared to death of what an investigation into voter fraud will uncover?
Could this be the reason why Obama never stopped campaigning during his 8 years in office?
JG is still a liar.
Chuck,
Thanks for showing us Hillary still won the popular vote, even based on "approximation" and "extrapolated" data based on an internet poll.
Any idea why the democrats didn't demand an voter suppression investigation
Republicans were taken to court in North Carolina and it was adjudicated to be targeting minorities. Got it? Didn't think so.
Author of Trump’s Favorite Voter Fraud Study Says Everyone’s Wrong
Richman is unequivocal that even if his findings are correct, Clinton would have still handily won the popular vote in November, despite the new president’s claims.
“I can’t quite account for the math being so badly wrong in their analyses,” he says of the Trump administration’s interpretation of his report.
Here’s what the math should look like (that is, if Richman’s initial study was accurate—which many researchers doubt). If 6.4 percent of the estimated 20.3 million noncitizens in the US voted, and if just 81.8 percent of them voted for Clinton (the percentage who voted for Obama in his 2008 study), that’s an added margin of a little more than 835,000 votes. In other words: Even with all of those supposedly fraudulent ballots, Clinton still would have won the popular vote by more than 2 million votes.
While Trump has been ranting about voter fraud as the cause of his popular vote loss, his press team has been spinning a more palatable narrative about the need for integrity in voting.
“Voting is the most sacred right we have as Americans. It’s the hallmark and the foundation of our democracy,” Spicer said during today’s press briefing. “To ensure we know that every person’s vote counts equally as the next citizen is probably one of the greatest things we can do.”
Richman agrees with that sentiment, but he’s skeptical that the Trump administration, which has aligned itself so clearly with the idea that voter fraud exists, can pull off such a complex and sensitive study. “The worst-case scenario would be a study which is not well done and not done transparently and not credible,” he says. “I’m not that optimistic it can be done successfully.”
He’s also doubtful of any effective policy prescriptions that might come from such research. In his own report, Richman and his co-authors argue that voter identification laws “are unlikely to be effective at preventing electoral participation by noncitizen immigrants.” But he fears that may be just the solution Republican legislators propose in response to any instances of voter fraud that the purported investigation unearths.
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/author-trumps-favorite-voter-fraud-study-says-everyones-wrong/
TP,
To better facilitate dialogue, I’m responding to your words addressed to me from another blog.
Next, Dave, one of the few things Trump did get right is that Obama and his policies were the catalyst for the creation of ISIS. His pulling our troops out of Iraq instead of negotiating a new status of forces agreement when that country was showing such instability was a huge failure of his administration. ISIS occupied the power vacuum that resulted and made the blood and treasure of all of those that fought for Iraqi liberation to be largely in vain.
His dangerous and foolish deal with Iran only ensures that the nuclear arms race in the Middle East will begin as the balance of power shifts to a deadly adversary there that is the number one sponsor of state terrorism in the world!
Obama spend MILLIONS in an attempt to undermine Benjamin Netanyahu's re-election campaign.
==
I see you accuse Obama, instead of Bush, of “dramatically undermining our nation's economy, military, and world standing”. You espouse this belief, unsupported by facts. Bush’s war based on falsehoods, torture and collapsed economy undermined our nation's economy, military, and world standing. Now it is all Obama’s fault in far Right dogma. As I noted, it is a religion, and one of false beliefs and bias.
I agree Obama’s interventions in the Middle East were disasters. NOT anywhere near as much as Bush’s though. (I won’t blame Trump for Obama’s failures. That’s how your side operates.)
Now Trump wants to pillage Iraqi oil. A war crime. No lessons learned.
Obama and his policies were the catalyst for the creation of ISIS.
This is pure Trump koolade. Why not go all the way and declare, “Obama founded ISIS”?
Like Trump, you won’t admit to the fact. Bush’s war spawned ISIS. Got it?
They formed in 2006. Bush’s war is the reason “that country was showing such instability”. Period. Can you grasp that fact?
Bush bribed Sunnis with cash before the SOFA could be implemented. That agreement was supported by the vast majority of Iraqis and Americans. Obama had no standing to reinvaded Iraq, and that’s what it would have been, since the Shia majority wanted us out. There would be no “re-negotiating” the SOFA. Nobody wanted it, not even Republicans.
Iraqi liberation? Christians were allowed free worship under Saddam. They were killed and driven out of their homes by your frickin “liberation”, in reality a civil war. And you whine about Iran, ignoring the fact Bush’s war gave them an ally in Iraq. And it was not Obama’s “foolish deal”. It was an international agreement.
No meaningful alternative was ever proposed, apart from a path to war. Is that what you prefer? Got an better plan? If not, then, as Bannon says to journalists, shut up. Enough of your “alternative facts”.
And we are so sick of your blaming Obama for his attempts at mending the Bush Economic Catastrophe. Despite his corporatist leanings, Obama left a better economy than Bush left him. You can’t handle that fact so you blame Obama. This really looks like hate at worst, and partisan dogma at best.
Take that crap and gently shove it up your plantation meme. ;-)
TP,
Did “Obama spend MILLIONS in an attempt to undermine Benjamin Netanyahu's re-election campaign”?
No. This is false in every way. More far Right dogma. AKA your political religion.
Please educate yourself before parroting your dogma. (Like THAT will happen.)
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/25/blog-posting/blog-claims-us-funded-anti-netanyahu-election-effo/
Affiliates OneVoice Israel got $233,500 from the State Department to spend in Israel and OneVoice Palestine got another $115,776 to spend in the Palestinian Territories. That adds up to a little more than $349,000.
The question is: Do those contributions amount to funding "anti-Likud, anti-Netanyahu groups in...the Israel election"?
Given that residents of the Palestinian Territories can’t vote in national Israeli elections, it’s hard to see how money spent there would influence voters in Israel. That leave us to account for $233,500.
Payton Knopf, senior director of global communications for OneVoice, said the State Department money was spent by November 2014, and never "spent any U.S. government funds in connection with the recent elections in Israel. Claims to the contrary are simply wrong."
There are two important points to unpack there. If OneVoice says it spent the money by November 2014, that would be before the Israeli elections were even scheduled.
That happened in December after Netanyahu called for early elections.
Got it?
You’re welcome.
Dave, today Chuck's and T. Paine's "con-sense" smells capriciously like week-old garbage in the middle of summer. The stench is nauseating even when you walk away from it.
Chuck "Majormajor" Morre: "JG is still a liar."
"You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye." ~~~Matthew 7:5 (New American Bible)
Okay Chuck, I've given you every opportunity to cool down and stop slandering my good name. I'm going to give you a lesson in the legal concept of "cease and desist". I'm letting you know that if you write, just one more time, that I'm a liar -- without any supporting comments backing your claim -- I'm going to let loose with both barrels. If you think I was mocking you before, than in the words of a celebrated wayward cop by the name of Harry Callahan, "Go ahead, make my day." :-]
Do you feel lucky?...
Archie,
Just saw the movie Patriot Day. Tamerlan Tsarnaev, claimed as JG does that 9-11 was done by the US government. Can you say birds of a feather??
JG are you threatening me? How very liberal of you, you want me to stop calling you a liar, then stop being one. You can start by taking back your claim that I said black lives don't matter. (which is a lie) I've cited the source of my claim, so give it your best shot.
Dave Dubya: "'Sore Loser' was one of your names, remember?"
The troll's such a mental midget. [head shaking] I'm guessing he was kicked off of "conservative" sites before landing on Tom's. Of course those sites wouldn't have given him the same freedom of expression that Tom and you have.
Chuck "Majormajor" Morre: "JG are you threatening me?"
You mean you couldn't even figure that out?! [head's still shaking] Oh wait...I'm sorry. I thought that was totally allowable, even encouraged, in the land of Trampistan...
"You can start by taking back your claim that I said black lives don't matter."
I'll take it back once I see you write the following: "black lives matter to me." Write this and I'll retract my statement -- but not a moment before.
Don't, and both barrels come looking for you.
You have to love Stephen Bannon's latest tongue-lashing of the mainstream corporate media. ;-) This administration certainly isn't interested in making any friends; quite the opposite.
I find a glimmer of hope in these assaults. The mainstream media has been complicit with the United States government for at least the last few decades in its chronic and habitual omitting of the truth. Now maybe the tide will turn. Possibly the media will finally begin to do the scrutinizing and investigating of the entrenched corporate state and the ever-expanding police state, exposing its corruption and criminality as it was originally intended to do.
JG,
black lives matter to me
white lives matter to me
brown lives matter to me
red lives matter to me
yellow lives matter to me
unborn lives to me
I'm praying for you JG.
Only someone who hit their head real hard on something believes WT7 was brought down by controlled demolition.
Dave, do you also believe with Cuckoo Bird that WT7 was brought down by controlled demolition?
I know he is your buddy. You, JG, and Che are 3 peas in a pod. amirite?
Chuck "Majormajor" Morre: "black lives matter to me"
Very good! I commend you! Now, I retract my earlier statement and apologize for being incorrect.
"I'm praying for you JG."
Pray for your nation instead. I found out some very disturbing information today about this administration you helped place in office. This is not good.
Have any of you seen Tom Hanks and "Bridge of Spies"?
Socialism was so great in East Berlin (lol,lol,lol) that they had to build a wall to keep people from fleeing. amirite Dave?
I have recently watched "Patria O Muerta: Cuba, Fatherland or Death" on HBO.
Cuba, like Venezuela, are socialist SHITHOLES. Lots of talk from the Central Planners to paint a rosey picture of Social Equality blah blah blah, but the people live in poverty. amirite?
Cuckoo Bird (JG), please don't respond. You are one of Lenin's "useful idiots".
Chuck "ArchieBunkerNYC" Morre: "Only someone who hit their head real hard on something believes WT7 was brought down by controlled demolition."
Oh, I dunno, that would mean every one of the physicists, mechanical engineers, structural engineers, chemists, and architects who make up 9/11 Truth hit their heads? Seems unlikely -- just as unlikely as a steel-framed 47-story high-rise building, with only 6 floors having sustaining any fire damage, falling into its own footprint with essentially no resistance (i.e., in free-fall). It's pretty miraculous, wouldn't you say Chuck? ;-)
Two or three posts ago, you said, and I quote, "I have had a couple of physics courses in college." I'm supposing that if you bothered to take two physics classes, there's a fairly high probability that you were a physics major. Either that, or you're lying through your teeth. Assuming the former, and I'm going out on a limb with this assumption, than it's an undeniable certainty that you studied and understand Newton's Laws of Motion. Correct?
Never before 9/11, and never since, has a steel-framed high-rise building fallen due to fire alone -- let alone perfectly into its own footprint. Pretty remarkable, huh Chuck?
"Have any of you seen Tom Hanks and 'Bridge of Spies'?"
Are movies and television your source of historical content? Do you ever read, as in books? Chuck, what was the name of the last book you read -- and when was that?
"I have recently watched 'Patria O Muerta: Cuba, Fatherland or Death' on HBO."
Gee, two movies! You must have been a double major!...physics and history! LOL
"...(JG), please don't respond."
That's like telling someone not to think of a horse's ass -- automatically they're going to think of you! ;-)
As usual, you're playing out of your league. Give it up.
JG
I have always prayed for our nation regardless who was President.
Archie,
I saw Bridge of Spies. But not "Patria O Muerta: Cuba, Fatherland or Death" as I do not subscribe to HBO.
What I find interesting is the Socialist Workers Paradise formerly known as East Germany, had to build a wall to keep their "happy" citizens from leaving while the corporation controlled, fascist, racist, etc. USA, which we are constantly told is bad because we are one of the few countries without universal health care, has to build a wall to keep people out. BUT if we believe what liberals say, the USA is a world wide bad guy.
Go figure.
Chuck "Majormajor" Morre: "I have always prayed for our nation regardless who was President."
Yeah, sure you did. I could tell. ;-)
Chuck "Majormajor" Morre: "[The United States] has to build a wall to keep people out."
Could it be that the real reason will be to keep people in?... ;-)
Obviously, the rest of your comment (9:52 PM) is con-sense and not worthy of response. To claim that the United States government isn't corrupt beyond imagination, and is not beholden to Wall Street and its other benefactors, is totally irresponsible and naive. But, if the shoe fits, wear it.
Speaking of...waiting for the other shoe to drop...
They cling so tightly to their Manifesto and Climate Change Religion where their "scientists" won't release their data like real scientists do to back their conclusions.
Cuckoo Bird Trumpist con-sense
JG
Yours of January 29, 2017 at 8:20 AM
Explain if the wall is to keep people in why there isn't a wall across our northern border? Have you made your travel plans to move north before the northern wall is built? Better hurry!! The sky is falling. LOL
"To claim that the United States government isn't corrupt beyond imagination, and is not beholden to Wall Street and its other benefactors, is totally irresponsible and naive."
I didn't claim that, but it is a constant theme of yours. Kind of a one note Johnny.
"Obviously, the rest of your comment (9:52 PM) is con-sense and not worthy of response."
Really? Or is the truth too much for you to handle?
Anybody see the latest montage of cable media reports on the left's latest outrage of extreme vetting of people from terrorist Nations?
The same Nations listed as terrorist by the messiah of Hope and Change, Obama, the great one who promised he would heal the planet and stop the Oceans from rising. amirite?
It struck me how easy it was for the media to put everything they say about the Trump administration in a negative light, and how everything they say about Obama and the Democrats in a very positive light. Is this an objective Media or an arm of the DemocRAT party? A biased media like the failed Socialist shitholes of Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela? amirite?
Liberalism is truly a mental disorder. thatsafact!
Arch,
Dear Leader's executive order (IOKIYAR, amirite?) has already been called unconstitutional.
U.S. District Judge Ann Donnelly of the Eastern District of New York wrote, “The petitioners have a strong likelihood of success in establishing that the removal of the petitioners and others similarly situated violates the rights to Due Process and Equal Protection guaranteed by the United States Constitution.”
Is this an objective Media or an arm of the DemocRAT party?
This is confusing indeed.
We've been told by the radical Right that our media is "state-run media". Now Dear Leader IS the state. What happened?
See Orwell's Doublethink.
Con-sense is the Republican version.
Now Breitbart is "state-run media", or do we have a "Breitbart-run state"?
Comforting either way, I'm sure.
Con-servatism is truly a dangerous cult.
"We've been told by the radical Right that our media is "state-run media". Now Dear Leader IS the state. What happened?"
Lol, you are one heck of a spinner. Saul Alinsky is smiling in his grave thanks to his special Marxist disciple Dave Dubya!
Even TomCat and Islam Jim, who gave your "Progressive Patriot Award" would be so proud of the way you spin!
"Now Dear Leader IS the state. What happened?"
What happened is that Trump got elected and Obama in 8 years has lost more seats at the Federal and State level for the Democrats in 100 years. That's what happened my progressive/Marxist friend!
"We’re Winning, Obama’s Losing; State-Run Media Calls Us Racists"
https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2009/08/17/we_re_winning_obama_s_losing_state_run_media_calls_us_racists2/
Direct from crybaby cult spokesman Limbaugh.
I accept your apology, Arch.
How to Drive a Liberal Completely Insane
"I distinctly recall, during the George W. Bush years, reading and overhearing liberals express a strange new respect for previous Republican presidents like George H.W. Bush and Reagan, who they now said towered head and shoulders above the cretinous, antediluvian, swaggering Texan that the GOP had forced upon the nation.
But now that Donald Trump is president, guess what? Yup—strange new respect from liberals for George W. Bush, as reported by Kyle Smith in the New York Post:
With Obama out and Trump in, the mental malady known as Bush Derangement Syndrome has finally begun to recede, and the 43rd president is enjoying an unlikely renaissance. Progressive journalist David Corn approvingly quoted Bush on Inauguration Day. Time magazine, Slate The Atlantic and the op-ed page of The New York Times have all run pieces in which left-wing writers favorably compared the second President Bush’s rhetoric to President Trump’s.
All of this suggests a wonderful way of sending liberals around the bend into total madness. Just sneak up behind them and say, “Well, if you didn’t like Bush at the time and don’t like Trump now, just wait till you see what we’ll do next!”
It’s guaranteed to be a fun time watching the reaction."
Steven Hayward
Don't worry, it's a short trip, ;-)
Our "Poll watcher" has been quiet lately.
According to a new Quinnipiac University poll released Thursday.
The survey found that 36% of American voters approve of Trump's handling of his job after his first week, while 44% say they disapprove.
Chuck " Majormajor" Morre: "I didn't claim that [the United States government isn't corrupt beyond imagination, and is not beholden to Wall Street and its other benefactors], but it is a constant theme of yours. Kind of a one note Johnny."
Yes, I agree, you haven't claimed it. You have not acknowledged it, and never will. That's the reason it is, as you say, "a constant theme" of mine. You will not concede that the United States is now officially an oligarchy -- not a democracy -- which in America today means we're essentially a corporatocracy. Period.
And that's not all. Although this is a fact -- and there are no "alternative facts" for you to hide behind -- you continue to gloat, crow and exalt the virtues of "capitalism". Capitalism -- as Adam Smith envisioned -- was a fine idea that allowed this nation to increase standards of living for a great many of its citizens, has finally devolved and reached the same death throes that communism did in the Soviet Union and its satellite nations in the 1980s. It's over. Done.
Yet you, in your infinite non-wisdom and pin-head thinking, voted for one of the most vile, most corrupt, most insincere oligarchs to lead this nation -- who has increased the depth and broadened the scope of the oligarchy, based upon the wealth and backgrounds of the henchmen he has gathered together to advise him.
Your Jesus prays for you, for he knows you should have been better than that yet chose not to be. As far as me, I still think you're a horse's ass.
Dave, I know you've already seen this, but it bears repeating.
It looks like the wheels are already coming off in the Trump Administration. Only a little more than a week in and staffers are seeing that Trump is irrational. The place is demoralized. Can mutiny be far behind?
Dave Dubya: "The survey found that 36% of American voters approve of Trump's handling of his job after his first week, while 44% say they disapprove."
Short honeymoon. How long was it?...one hour? LOL
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
President Trump Job Approval
Rasmussen Reports
Approve 53%
1/30/17
DD your report is two days older, mine is more current.
More Fake News from the left.
LOL
http://www.gallup.com/home.aspx?g_source=logo
Gallup TODAY shows Trump at 42%.
Only Rasmussen(R) and FOX(R), HOME of Fake News, have Trump over 50%.
ALL other polls show Trump under 50%
Just the facts.
Dear Leader's dictate against Muslims is being rejected as unconstitutional by courts.
Gee, whodathunk?
JG,
The rats will be fleeing the sinking "SS Trump" soon. The Republican Party will soon have to choose either distancing themselves from Trump or facing utter defeat next year.
"SS Trump". That seems to ring truer every day. He's proud of his German genes, ya know.
"Rasmussen Reports uses an online panel along with the automated calls that it places. The firm’s poor results this year suggest that the technique will need to be refined. At least they have some game plan to deal with the new realities of polling. In contrast, polls that place random calls to landlines only, or that rely upon likely voter models that were developed decades ago, may be behind the times."
There's way too much statistical error built into the Rasmussen model. Rasmussen claims it polls "likely voters", yet it doesn't poll cell phones (only landlines), and even then the polls are not conducted via operator-assisted calls, only automated robocalls.
I wouldn't exactly define those with landlines as the "only" likely voters, would you? Their model essentially eliminates a whole generation -- millennials -- and a good part of the X-Gen. I mean, really, who has landlines today except baby-boomers and businesses?
So, in reality, the Rasmussen model only actively polls the baby-boomer generation. That's it. Plus, its business partnership with Fox News can't be discounted. This only adds to the margin of error.
I might add that comparing Rasmussen polling results ten days into their respective presidencies, Obama's "Approval Index" was +23; Biff's is a dismal -1. Considering the economic disaster Obama's predecessor left him, with the current economic situation (horrible, agreed, yet not the crisis like back in January 2009), says a lot about the perceptions people have about the looming days of Trumpistan. He's getting off on the wrong foot, no doubt. But, what else would you expect?
Dave Dubya: "The Republican Party will soon have to choose either distancing themselves from Trump or facing utter defeat next year."
Dave, it's obvious this cannot go on. Something's going to have to "break". I don't know whether you recall, but leading up to election day I commented on Tom's blog that a Clinton presidency would assure nuclear war, and that one headed by Trump would bring civil war. I still feel this is the case, and his latest antics are certainly paving the way.
Here's my fear: Should Biff's grandiose ideas go up in smoke, and it's an almost certainty they will, he (and his administration) will be looking for scapegoats.
This will not end pretty. Hopefully the American people will be able to see through the charade better than the German people did in the 1930s.
Otherwise, goddess help us.
Everyone is in turmoil on the left because Trump came into office doing precisely what he said he would do. Amazing.
He is NOT issuing a "Muslim ban", as the LEFTIST corporate media has suggested. He is implementing a temporary ban of immigrants from seven primarily Muslim nations that have been in political upheaval due to war that cannot provide proper vetting documentation to ensure that the refugees coming into America are precisely who they say they are. There is no way to get documentation from Yemen, Syria, or Iran to verify that there are not terrorists hidden in these refugee influxes. Further, ISIS has stated that they WILL send in terrorists disguised as refugees. Ask Angela Merkel how crime has sky-rocketed in Germany due to their not being able to vet incoming refugees.
If it was a true "Muslim ban", we would have stopped refugees from stable functioning governments as well, like Jordan or Saudi Arabia.
The hypocritical irony is that if Trump did let all of the refugees in that applied for asylum and one or more of them were responsible for a terrorist act killing Americans here, then the left and their sycophantic press would be castigating him for not being able to stop these terrorists.
Again, there are plenty of legitimate things to criticize Trump for without having to lie and distort things that he is doing correctly and promised he would do during his campaign. I know we all are used to politicians not keeping their promises, but Trump at least seems to be trying to make good on some of his. We now return you to your lying MSNBC or Daily Kos program already in lying progress.
"We now return you to your lying MSNBC or Daily Kos program already in lying progress."
LOL ;)
Majormajor, sometimes the painful truth is also humorous, huh? :) I don't think our host will find it as amusing though since he still hasn't acknowledged that leftist political bent of the media and deflects it by saying it is "corporatist". IOKIYAD!
No terrorist from any of the seven countries on the banned list have killed any Americans including on 9/11. The current system seems to be working well. If Trump wanted to improve the system, he could do it without a blanket ban.
Jerry,
You make a very sane point. No wonder the Trumpists hate it.
TP,
Everyone is in turmoil on the left because Trump came into office doing precisely what he said he would do. Amazing.
Yes. The question is why not YOU?
Trump has advocated war crimes like torture and pillaging Iraqi oil. He almost started a trade war with Mexico. He refuses to accept the results of an election HE won! He has to LIE about “millions of illegals” voting for Hillary.
And yes, he has banned Muslim refugees. “So far, so good”, my friend? What happened to “Mr. Constitution?” We know. IOKIYAR.
A “true Muslim ban”? Hell, yes it is. They ain’t banned ‘cause they’re Klansmen. They are banned Muslims. ISIS loves the propaganda recruitment prize our asshole leader just gave them.
Saner Republicans are getting a clue:
McCain and Graham wrote in a statement.
“Ultimately, we fear this executive order will become a self-inflicted wound in the fight against terrorism. This executive order sends a signal, intended or not, that America does not want Muslims coming into our country. That is why we fear this executive order may do more to help terrorist recruitment than improve our security.”
We also know that you, and most conservatives, are terrified of letting refugees find asylum here. Germany has admitted 600,000 Syrians, and you’re shocked some criminals made it through. We’ve allowed, what, 15,000 or so? After long periods of vetting at that.
Between 1975 and 2015, foreign nationals from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen killed exactly zero Americans on U.S. soil, according to an analysis of terror attacks by the Cato Institute. Now Trump has Americans wetting themselves in fear. (That’s how Nationalist Fascism works, buddy.)
You are projecting the phrase "Muslim ban" unto the mythical “Leftist media”. (Evidence offered? Zero.) Have you forgotten the phrase "Muslim ban" originated with Dear Leader when he promised just that?
Your “lying MSNBC” is more “Lügenpresse” fascist hyperbole. (Evidence offered? Zero.) Chuck seems tickled by the idea too. You’re both gleefully dancing to Trump’s fiddle there.
So you do you hate MSNBC for not repeating YOUR LIE about Obama sending “millions” to “defeat Netanyahu”? There’s that beam again, good sir.
Trust me, there’s a LOT more of your indoctrination that is JUST AS FALSE.
Starting here:
Here we go again with “leftist political bent of the media and deflects it by saying it is "corporatist".
Not corporatist, you say? Really? Holy crap, you’re gone, pal.
That is the Big Lie, the “Lügenpresse”, of fascism. Hell, most major newspapers endorsed Bush over Gore in 2000. Don’t let that fact pop your bubble. Corporate media made Trump.
There’s no limit to your willful blindness. You are convinced you have a monopoly on truth when the opposite has been proven again and again.
Now you and Chuck go cheer Dear Leader’s great victory.
His lies are now your lies, His hate is now your hate. His false beliefs are your false beliefs.
You are now a Trumpist. You may as well embrace it, just like you embrace your comrade Chuck’s hate and ignorance.
TP
It's amazing how a Obama policy when used by Trump is called racist by liberals.
Must be because Trump is white, you know blame the white guy.
Amazing, putting on hold for a temporary time refugees coming into the USA until a better vetting system can be developed is being called fascism
"In the context of terrorism, at least a plurality of Americans are OK with immigration bans.
The Trump administration has argued that this is not a ban on Muslims. Rather, they’ll likely argue, as the order itself does, that the policies are meant “to protect the American people from terrorist attacks by foreign nationals admitted to the United States.” It’s not at all clear these policies will actually improve national security, but the American people have been more supportive of immigration restrictions in the name of counterterrorism. In a Quinnipiac University poll conducted in January, 48 percent of voters supported “suspending immigration from ‘terror prone’ regions, even if it means turning away refugees from those regions.” Forty-two percent were opposed. And a December Politico/Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health poll found 50 percent of Americans were in favor of “banning future immigration from regions where there are active terrorist groups.”
https://fivethirtyeight.com/
"A 'true Muslim ban'? Hell, yes it is."
In the words of the leftist corporate media when criticizing one of their own, that statement of Dave's is not entirely accurate.
In the real world, and if journalism wasn't dead, we would call it a lie. It is not a mistake, because Dave knows the truth and yet refuses to correct his statement that it is a "Muslim ban".
Muslims are allowed to come to America from Oman, U.A.E., Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Azerbaijan, and many other Muslim nations. How can there be a ban on Muslims when Muslims from those nations are allowed to still come here? What President Trump has done is simply to require a delay so that more intense vetting can be done on people coming from seven countries that the Obama administration had designated as hot spots in order that Trump can better protect Americans.
We report... you decide!
TP - "I guess Trump should tear down the wall and have open borders where all immigrants, legal or otherwise should come into the country just like the Democrats want."
TP,
Such a comment undermines your credibility. Nobody is suggesting open borders, and you know it. Currently, there are more people going to Mexico than coming from Mexico. No terrorist from the seven banned countries has killed an American since before 9/11. The current system is working. That's not to say it could not be improved, but it is working pretty good.
I guess Trump should tear down the wall and have open borders where all immigrants, legal or otherwise should come into the country just like the Democrats want
Jerry,
This is TP proving again what I said about his false beliefs. (It seems he still believes his Commissar Bannon lie about Obama sending "millions" of dollars to defeat Netanyahu.) As noted, this is only one of many.
They are so arrogant when they tell US what WE want and think. They can lie about us because we are "less American" than they are. They know us better than we know ourselves, or so their goddamn propaganda tells them.
I'm sick of their evil hateful bullshit. That is exactly what it is. And they don't care. They are a cult of true believers.
Let's be clear. I don’t hate them. They can be very kind and loving people. So can other cults like Scientologists, I imagine. But there is a dark corner in their soul, or rather in their amygdala. That primitive fear center of authoritarians’ brains is more active than in most of us. I am saddened by their lack of understanding and empathy. I am disappointed in their gullibility. I am outraged at the outright hate and authoritarian ravages on freedom we have seen from their worst.
TP is doubling down on his Trumpism. I saw this coming. It is in his authoritarian nature. After all, the only "real problem" with Trump was he used to be a democrat.
Not a peep about Trump's open pro-torture beliefs. His "constitutional" cult followers seem to agree there is no such thing as "cruel and unusual punishment". Not a peep about Trump's offering up Iraqi oil as pillage. All war crimes, yet. no more "Mr. Constitution" to call them out, for Dear Leader is making America great.
Syrian Muslim immigrants are banned. TP says no Muslims are banned. Or is it not ALL Muslims are banned? Or is it Muslims-who-Trump-needs-to-make-examples-of are banned? Or is this too, all Obama's fault? After all Dear Leader blamed Obama for “founding ISIS”. That is some pure sociopath behavior, folks.
Anyway you look at it, Muslims are being banned. But there’s “no ban on Muslims”. Orwellian doublethink on display.
He projects his "hateful propaganda being disseminated by the Left". Here's what hateful propaganda looks like directed back at him. "Ban the democracy-hating con-servative theocrats! Ban them from our Constitutional Republic! Ban the radical Christian terrorists and every Christian from their country! America shall no longer tolerate Christian hate, intolerance and terror. Oklahoma City and Dr. Tiller did not die in vain, for now we know the true enemies of freedom."
I bet that got his attention, but the message is no doubt lost on him. I could say that Muslim refugees understand though .
He's too blind to see there are innocent human beings, suffering human beings, who will suffer more, thanks to his Dear Leader's ignorance and hate. He can't see it, perhaps because he shares it. There is no self awareness when it comes to hate born of ignorance.
Sadly TP lacks the common sense shown by McCain, and embraces Trumpism.
TP is now a foot-soldier for Dear Leader in his war on journalism, war on facts, war on TV News, war on liberals, war on voter rights, and rejection of every other source of information not controlled by Commissar Bannon.
He's lost his ability to condemn Trump in any way, and joins the attacks on all of Trump's opposition. There can be no more truth spoken to power, for his side alone controls the truth...that is their Orwellian world now.
TP will do his best to help Dear Leader make America great again. Their first target is our free press. Liberals are always fair game. Yes, it is an Orwellian nightmare overtaking our country.
For now at last, TP loves Big Brother.
If not, he's got me fooled.
T. Paine: "Everyone is in turmoil on the left because Trump came into office doing precisely what he said he would do. Amazing."
Trump also said, prior to assuming office, that he "grabs their pussy." -- about which most people, with even a modicum of character, were outraged.
Should the left, then, ignore that also and look the other way when he decides that is what he's going to do? Your statement indicates that not only a priori assumptions should be ignored -- but also observation and experience -- should he commit an action that he already indicated he would commit.
I suppose that's your "con-sense" way of justifying it.
"In the words of the leftist corporate media..." [bold font used for emphasis]
That's an oxymoron.
Mr. Paine, we've already been through this. As I explained a post or so ago, the mainstream media in this country is owned by just a handful of media conglomerates -- vastly different from as recently as the 1970s, for example, when there were literally hundreds of independently owned outlets. Despite this, I recall your response to be that these mega-media giants employed liberal and leftist reporters and writers, nonetheless, who presented their viewpoints. Amazingly, to me, you inferred that this is the slant that the public was presented.
Really?!? Do you really think that's how it works?
I recall a quotation by Upton Sinclair who said, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" I think, as far as all those leftists and liberals who you claim are pecking away at their typewriters, assailing the airways owned by the conservative media conglomerates, a more up-to-date rendition should be: "It is difficult to get a person to say or write something, when their salary depends upon their not saying or writing it!"
Let that sink in, Mr. Paine, before you attempt to refute it.
You've always said you respect lefties and liberals who attempt to find common ground with conservatives, and you've cited Rain who frequents Tom's blog as an example. Yet you rarely apply the same rules to yourself and instead choose to revert to your "con-sense" whenever your cultist beliefs are threatened or assaulted. I strongly suggest that you take a page from your chosen moniker -- specifically the title of his famous publication -- and use a little yourself.
Jerry, I was using hyperbole to make a point, sir. I realize that even few progressives truly want completely open borders. It is also why I used my tongue-in-cheek characterization of myself that Mr. Dubya sometimes suggests that I am. When one is acting foolish, sometimes pointing it out by taking their nonsense to the logical conclusion of it will better make the point.
I am leaving to get on a plane, but I will address your foolishness later, Mr. Dubya. Hopefully there won't be anarchists and progressive snowflakes still gumming up the works at the airport in their "protests".
TP - "When one is acting foolish, sometimes pointing it out by taking their nonsense to the logical conclusion of it will better make the point."
Acting foolish? So, protesting a unilateral (executive order) action that is questionably unconstitutional, is foolish? I happen to think that protest is a hallmark of democracy, even if I don't agree with the protest.
Logical conclusion? I think the logical conclusion to the protests is the rescinding the executive order. I don't see how open borders is the logical conclusion, at all. It is an illogical conclusion that hurts your argument.
TP,
Do you call the radical left going crazy when Obama issued a similar immigration EO specifically targeting Cubans?
During his last week in office, President Obama repealed a long-standing executive order known as “Wet Foot/Dry Foot,” which allowed all Cubans legally touching U.S. soil to stay here illegally. The objective of the executive order was to give sanctuary to Cubans risking their lives on makeshift vessels trying to sail to the United States and escape the oppressive communist regime that has governed there for over half a century.
Sanctuary for those fleeing a communist country is not safe for America?
Please.
Oh I forgot, must blame the white guy.
Over 50% Americans are to Trump being president.
Not the truth.
In 2011 the US discovered Al-Qaeda terrorists living as refugees in Kentucky.
ABC reported:
As a result of the Kentucky case, the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News – even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets. One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said. In 2011, fewer than 10,000 Iraqis were resettled as refugees in the U.S., half the number from the year before, State Department statistics show.
But now we blame the white guy.
Chuck,
Thank you for approving of Obama's actions against a clear and real threat. They went on to improve screening after that.
“Alternative facts” zombies don’t care for the truth:
Factcheck.org:
President Donald Trump defended his sweeping immigration policy by calling it “similar to what President Obama did in 2011 when he banned visas for refugees from Iraq for six months.” That’s a faulty comparison.
There was a delay in processing Iraqi refugees in 2011 after it was discovered that two Iraqi refugees living in Kentucky had been involved in roadside bombing attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq.
The Kentucky case not only caused a backlog in processing Iraqi refugees in 2011, but it also resulted in an overhaul of the refugee screening process.
The Obama administration’s actions were limited to one country and in response to a specific threat — the potential for other Iraqi refugees to take advantage of a flaw in the screening process.
By contrast, Trump ordered a far wider ban — albeit also temporary — without identifying a specific threat.
But what Obama did was not a ban, and it did not involve visas.
Trump’s comparison of his immigration actions to Obama’s policy in 2011 is a faulty one. The fact is that the Obama administration was responding to a known and specific threat from one country and limited its response to refugees from that country, while Trump’s order temporarily bans refugees from all countries — indefinitely in the case of those from Syria — and temporarily bars all other visitors from seven predominately Muslim countries.
Meanwhile:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html
3 polls put Trump in the ‘30s for approval.
FOX News (R) has approval at 42% and disapproval at 55%
Rasmussen (R) stands alone with over 50% approval.
Thanks for clarifying mm's alternate facts, alternate facts without any support. But then, we all know that truth gets in the way of alternate facts, better known as lies.
Ban or not a ban?
Both, according to Trumpian and (TP's) doublethink.
Trump told reporters that his executive order was “working out very nicely,” adding “we’re going to have a very, very strict ban.” He tweeted, “If the ban were announced with a one week notice, the "bad" would rush into our country during that week. A lot of bad "dudes" out there!”
Mouthpiece Sean Spicer said it's "Not a ban".
So, there.
Better blame the evil media.
Chuck "Majormajor" Morre: "But now we blame the white guy."
Well, yes, but the other white guy -- George W. Bush. He's ultimately responsible for the conflict and unrest in the Middle East which has directly resulted in the current refugee crisis in Europe and elsewhere. He, along with the other white guys, Cheney and Rumsfeld, should be prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Dave Dubya: "Rasmussen (R) stands alone with over 50% approval."
That's understandable. (See my comment dated January 30, 2017 at 10:50 AM.)
Why are DD and JG opposed to improving our vetting of legal immigrates and refuges?
Why are JG and DD opposed to building a wall on our southern border?
What solution to radical Islamic terrorism do DD and JG support?
How would DD and JG do to pay off our national debt?
Long on criticisms, short on solutions?
Why does Chuck demand answers without offering solutions?
Why does he make false assumptions about others?
Sounds like con-sense to me.
LOL DD when have you ever offered solutions, much less answered questions???
You, JG and liberals are against conservatives solutions to these problems, were are your solutions?
What would liberals do about vetting, protecting our borders, ending the war with Islamic terrorism? Come guys step up to the plate with YOUR solutions.
I find it laughable that the Democrats are stonewalling President Trump's cabinet nominates claiming they need to be extreme vetted, yet are opposed extreme vetting refugees.
What false assumptions am I making about you DD?
So you now support President Trump's plan for defeating Islamic terrorism?
So you now support President Trump's plan for extreme vetting of refugees?
So you now support President Trump's plan to secure our boarders?
Put up or shut up liberals.
Mm - "So you now support President Trump's plan for defeating Islamic terrorism?
So you now support President Trump's plan for extreme vetting of refugees?
So you now support President Trump's plan to secure our boarders?"
You are asking the wrong questions. Liberals are not against defeating terrorism of any kind including Islamic. Liberals are not against improving vetting of refugees even though current vetting is working. Liberals are not against securing out borders.
Liberals are against a blanket ban on people from Trump's seven countries. Such a ban does nothing to defeat Islamic terrorism or terrorism from any other group. A ban has nothing to do with vetting refugees. It in fact negates vetting. And a wall does not significantly Increase our border security according to experts, real ones not armchair ones.
Chuck wonders:
when have you ever offered solutions, much less answered questions?
Proof I was correct. He either doesn't read what we write, or ignores us. Either way, his whine isn't worth the dignity of a response.
So Jerry's what's the plan liberals have to defeat Islamic terrorism?
Why do democrats want to use extreme vetting on President Trump's nominees but no on refugees and immigrates?
Are you disappointed that Nobel Peace Prize winner former President Obama was not able to win the war against Islamic Terrorism?
"A ban has nothing to do with vetting refugees" You don't understand that President Trump said the ban was temporary until the vetting process was improved? What's wrong with that if like you said you want vetting?
Dave,
You really don't have a answer do. After 8 years of Obama we are still at war, still under the threat of Islamic terrorism. You must be ok with that.
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