Thank you, Aasif Mandvi of the Daily Show. Your interview of Buncombe
County North Carolina GOP precinct chair Don Yelton was fascinating.
“Well, I been called a bigot
before,” admitted the persecuted Don ”Not a Racist” Yelton
For some nuance Don informs
us, “I
had a picture one time of Obama sittin’ on a stump as a witch doctor and I
posted it on facebook.”
Hmm. Nothing racist there,
unless it’s done by a liberal, of course. So maybe those “not racist”
Obama witch doctor pictures at Tea Party rallies were not all planted
by liberals after all.
Whodathunk? Just don't
forget Rush tells us, "You know, racism in this country is the exclusive
province of the left."
Don clarifies a crucial
point for us: “Now you have a black person using the term,
‘Nigger this and nigger that,’ and it's OK for them to do it.”
You tell ‘em Don. Never mind
Mandvi reminds you, “You do know we can hear you?” Don pays no attention to
this strange remark.
Now about those voter
restrictions..er, I mean voter ID laws, we’re seeing the GOP frantically
enacting.
“The law is going to kick the Democrats in the butt. If it hurts a bunch of college kids [that are] too lazy to get up off their bohonkas and go get a photo ID, so be it. If it hurts a bunch of whites, so be it...if it hurts a bunch of lazy blacks that want the government to give them everything, so be it.”
“The law is going to kick the Democrats in the butt. If it hurts a bunch of college kids [that are] too lazy to get up off their bohonkas and go get a photo ID, so be it. If it hurts a bunch of whites, so be it...if it hurts a bunch of lazy blacks that want the government to give them everything, so be it.”
So there it is, straight
from the Southern Republican conservative’s mouth. So be it, all you “lazy
blacks” that want the government to give you everything. Take that.
And just for the record,
let’s be fair and balanced, shall we, Don?
“As a mater of fact, one of
my best friends is...black.”
Well, then. What better
proof can we have Don is not a racist?
So why was this innocent
“not racist” ever called a bigot? I just don’t get it. Must be those damn
liberal lies.
There’s no justice for
Southern ‘not racist” white guys, is there, Don?
It seems, for some racist liberal
reasons, poor Don is now former Buncombe County North Carolina GOP
precinct chair.
Posts
135 comments:
Hilarious bit!
Yes, the South will rise again...to the lower echelon of bigotry and ignorance!
This is tea party extremism at its "finest".
What, nobody defending the guy saying what he said was taken out of context?? Altho, the guy did say he stands by what he said and then he got fired.
The guy should have googled "The Daily Show" before he agreed to do the interview.
To combat their blatant bigotry Right-Wingers have adopted two avenues of attack;
1) Democrats are the real racists because of things which happened pre-civil rights era, and before 1960.
2) Get spokesmen to proclaim that Blacks are being duped by the Democratic Party and that if only they would open their eyes cast off their chains etc etc etc they would recognize that the modern GOP is the Party for them.
These two attacks fail often.
The first because Republicans running on "their" Civil Rights legacy are like the Chicago Cubs claiming to be World Series Champs because they won in 1908... And most people recognize that the GOP has long since abandoned the Party of Lincoln and has clearly become the Crotch-snifing guard dogs of the Rich.
The second fails because the GOP Yelton's of the world say things which conservatives all think but are told never, ever to repeat.
As long as we're cherry picking low level party officials, can I bring up Democrat officials (who are fringe and low level) who want to outlaw private property, nationalize the oil industry, or assign trees human rights?
This idea that you can take one guy, chosen by a small minority, and label him the representative of a party of millions is the worst of straw man arguments. When I see this on the RNC platform, I'll take it seriously. Why not stick to what the GOP is about, and not what one guy is about. There are plenty of things the GOP gets wrong which they are actually for for you to delve into.
RNC platform:
"The (voter restriction) law is going to kick the Democrats in the butt."
I am sure making voter fraud more difficult will make things harder on Democrats. But please, provide link and exact language to the GOP platform. I just read it, and didn't see anywhere where it even mentioned your or anyone eases butt. I know you probably like yours, but trust me - nobody cares about your rear end.
And as for ID check when voting - which I'm sure we're about to get into - its like I always say.
It's okay to check ID when you buy a beer or a pack of cigarettes or apply for welfare or when buying a gun or taking a loan out at the bank or getting on an airplane or even entering this country... but ID checking voters to make sure they're old enough and live where they say and are who they are... thats Fascism!
Anyone in this country who doesn't have a picture ID anymore has done so willfully. And as to not wanting people to vote, you are correct. We don't want illegal aliens, minors, felons, or dead people to vote.
ah,gee, Free
''can I bring up Democrat officials (who are fringe and low level) who want to outlaw private property, nationalize the oil industry, or assign trees human rights?''
bring it on...seems like a very graphic example of a racist was posteed... and,...in rebuttal... you piss in the wind.
I like the Democrat one...the 'human rights for trees'
post a video EXAMPLE...OR CREDIBLE ATTRIBUTION.
DO THE SAVE FOR VOTER FRAUD. (non existant)
and remember, too, when you piss in the wind...take it out of your pants first.
JG,
Don't you know liberals are the racists. Just ask the Rush/Tea cult.
Kulkuri,
This is what happens when you wrap racism in ignorance. It will pop up. They smarter racist know that they're to blame liberals as the real racists. Koolade 101.
Gene,
You're right. The cult is still screaming about the Democrats being the "party of the KKK". Right. I bet all those Klansmen voted for Obama. LOL!
Free,
Why not stick to what the GOP is about, and not what one guy is about.
So you tell US the difference. He represents exactly what the GOP is doing in multiple states. He's completely in line with your party's ideology. Just a fact, not opinion.
Oh, you meant the RNC "platform" of words, not actions.
To the true believers who spout the GOP/Limbaugh Line on the myth of voter impersonation fraud, I suppose words matter more than facts or actions.
And as much as you're party howls in fake outrage over a fake problem, they take it much further than ID's.
You forget that part.
Their war on democracy is bigger than ID's. It's restricting voter registration and poll access. Show us the imaginary "problem" those fix.
Oh, that's right. The more voters, the more Republicans lose.
That IS a problem, isn't it?
No wonder they need to rig the system so they control the House with over a million less votes than dems. But I suppose ONE case of voter impersonation is far more destructive to democracy, eh?
So why do you suppose that the avid supporters of restricting voter registration and limiting poll access can't show us more than a dozen cases of actual voter impersonation they want to protect us from?
If you bothered to watch the clip, (which I'd bet you did not,) Don explained the "problem" was "one or two" voters among 60,000 in their local elections. We need to wonder what evidence he even has of that.
We don't want illegal aliens, minors, felons, or dead people to vote, either.
We don't either. And they don't. Show us where that happens to any detrimental degree.
YOU buy into the GOP claims like a true believer. Just admit the truth, that democracy is not suitable for your authoritarian party of economic elites.
I have one question for you to consider. Who benefits from the GOP voter suppression? Is it the public or the GOP? If you don't drink enough of their koolade you know it is purely partisan vote suppression.
Your hero Don, admitted as much. Other republicans have too. But go ahead and carry their water. You are their tool.
Okjimm,
Yeah, don't you know the "human rights for trees" fringe is far worse than racism and democracy suppression. Those treehuggers are the REAL threat to our democracy and freedom. Yessiree.
Glug, glug. Here have some of my koolade.
Ok, first one
Maxine Waters lets it slip she wants to nationalize energy industry.
New London Connecticut mayor Daryl Justin Finizio (D) in his capacity as mayor sued to start seizing private property to increase his towns tax base - which lead to the famous Kelo vs New London SCOTUS ruling that allowed him to do exactly that. So much for private property... The worst part was, after the Mayor seized the land the city didn't do anything with it. But hey, the Democrat mayor won and Suzette Kelo lost her home.
Van Jones -favorite Glen Beck whipping boy and Obama's ex-jobs czar flunkie - famously argued for the UN Earth treaty which he and probably only he supported - which suggested the UN decide the Earth was a living organism that had rights. Seriously.
So there you have it.
Of course I'm not suggesting these three morons represent the Democrat Party as a whole... but if I wanted to play the same straw man games Dave is playing I could do that.
Only that would make me a totally full of shit lying asshole. And I'm above that.
Show us where that happens to any detrimental degree.
Kinda hard to know when you aren't checking IDs. Maybe that's your point.
Who benefits from the GOP voter suppression? Is it the public or the GOP?
Does ID check suppress beer consumption? Give me a break. Your hysterics aren't a point, they're just liberal bullshit.
Maybe nationalizing Big Oil would be a good idea. As of now they're an arm of Republican power.
Guess what, the Earth is a biosphere of ecosystems. And we need to respect that fact to live and prosper in it. Your party treats it like a toxic waste dump. You tell us which is smarter?
New London? Did you read the article?
New London officials decided they needed Kelo's land and the surrounding 90 acres for a multimillion-dollar private development that included residential, hotel conference, research and development space and a new state park that would compliment a new $350 million Pfizer pharmaceutical research facility"
These were Republican owned businesses the politicians were pandering too, chum.
We can't help but note your avoiding my point of ID's being only a part of the war on democracy. What's up with that? Hasn't Rush told you how to defend those tactics yet?
Show us where that happens to any detrimental degree.
Kinda hard to know when you aren't checking IDs.
"So never mind the facts, we're telling you the problem and we're telling you what we're doing about it. And it benefits OUR party."
Yeah, that's how democracy works.
Sorry, anyway you look at it, this Don guy is exactly in sync with the GOP war on democracy. He's not fringe at all. You may say his racism is, but his ideology and actions are all in the GOP play book.
In fact YOUR cases are the straw men. None of their agendas are being implemented. Don's is.
See the difference?
Defending Maxine Waters
"Maybe nationalizing Big Oil would be a good idea."
Defending Van Jones
"Guess what, the Earth is a biosphere of ecosystems."
False equivalency for property seizure as if it were justification.
"These were Republican owned businesses the politicians were pandering too"
See? Here's another far left wacko whose views do not represent those of the Democrat Party. I would not judge every single Democrat on these extreme views. If I wanted to know what Democrats were for, I'd probably go read their party platform. That says we shouldn't nationalize the energy industry like this country was a third world dictatorship, we shouldn't treat streams and trees like people, and that people shouldn't have their homes taken over to increase a tax base to pay for welfare spending and schools.
We can't help but note your avoiding my point of ID's being only a part of the war on democracy
Yes, because showing an ID to get into a rated R movie is fine, but showing one to vote IS A WAR ON DEMOCRACY!!!!!!
Hysterical shouting stupid slogans will not impress anyone.
this Don guy is exactly in sync with the GOP war on democracy.
First, no he's not. Not anymore than Dave Dubya is in sync with the Democrat Party... which is zero.
Second, what war on Democracy? We were told ID check would end the Democrat vote in Florida. Florida went Democrat. So A: ID check didn't make any difference. And B: It didn't hurt Democrats in a swing state no less. Turns out that when you have to do the same thing when you vote as you do to swim without your parents present at the public pool all it does is keep dead people from voting.
Calm down and pick your vagina off the ground. Your shrill hysterics are making you look like a school girl grounded on prom night.
Defending Maxine Waters
"Maybe nationalizing Big Oil would be a good idea."
Defending Van Jones
"Guess what, the Earth is a biosphere of ecosystems."
False equivalency for property seizure as if it were justification.
"These were Republican owned businesses the politicians were pandering too"
See? Here's another far left wacko whose views do not represent those of the Democrat Party.
I gave you one "maybe" and two facts. NOW who's being shrill and hysterical?
this Don guy is exactly in sync with the GOP war on democracy.
"First, no he's not. Not anymore than Dave Dubya is in sync with the Democrat Party... which is zero."
First, Rush, there is no "Democrat Party". Second, Don's a REPUBLICAN. That means he's in sync with the party. Are you sober?
Second, what war on Democracy?
The Right's war on democracy. See the House of Reps hijacked by a minority. Then absurdly claiming to follow the "will of the people". THAT war on democracy.
Limiting and restricting voter registration and poll access are other parts or their war on democracy.
Only true believers like you think their agenda is not politically motivated and politically calculated. How gullible, for a person wrapping himself in the Randroid cloak of "reason".
Better call Rush for a rebuttal. Or keep ignoring two thirds of my case.
Maybe if Free sobers up he can read the documentation of Republicans admitting to vote suppression.
Voter Suppression Incidents 2008 Analysis
Former Florida GOP leaders say voter suppression was reason they pushed new election law
Crist testifies in Senate that there was voter suppression in Florida
Bill cutting early voting hours heads to governor
Republican Mike Bennett, from Bradenton, suggested it might be too easy to cast a ballot.
"We do make it convenient for people to vote," he said. "But I have to tell you, I don't have a problem making it harder. I want people in Florida to want to vote as bad as that person in Africa who walks 200 miles across the desert. This should not be easy. This should be something you should do with a passion."
Justice Department Is Challenging North Carolina’s Extreme Voter Suppression Law
The Justice Department filed suit against key provisions of North Carolina’s worst-in-the-nation voter suppression law in federal court today. The lawsuit alleges that North Carolina’s harsh voter ID law, cutbacks to early voting, elimination of same-day registration during the early voting period and ban on counting provisional ballots cast in the wrong precinct violate Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.
“You can say what you like, but there is no voter fraud. How can it be widespread and undetected?” – Colin Powell
I gave you one "maybe" and two facts. NOW who's being shrill and hysterical?
In my best shrill Liberal voice - "Oh noooes, people have to do something they already have to do like five times a day anyway for even the most mundane things. Democracy and freedom are over!"
I'm so yawning at your feigned outrage.
Don's a REPUBLICAN. That means he's in sync with the party.
So what you're saying is a low level party functionary is somehow more representative of the GOP than the party platform which is voted on by delegates from all over the GOP who are elected by rank and file membership? No dude, are you sober? Or are you just dizzy from screaming like a mashed cat about how getting your ID checked at the polls the same way they check it to make a minor credit card purchase is tantamount to the a Nazi take over and proof millions of Republicans are secretly Klan members? I'm going with full of pure bullshit, no one can get this drunk or be that stupid. But being full of total bullshit is kinda the norm for you.
Only true believers like you think their agenda is not politically motivated and politically calculated
Projection. Pure and simple. Your stance is motivated by a desire to continue democrat voter fraud.
Former Florida GOP leaders say voter suppression was reason they pushed new election law
Note true, but even IF that was the case... did it work? Nope. Next.
You can't find one case where it prevents a person from voting. If you don't have an ID in this day and age, its willful. This is just Democrat feigned outrage to cover up for the fact that now it might be harder in Florida for Democrat voter fraud front groups to get Micky Mouse a vote.
Joe Wilson was 100% correct, Obama lies.
House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer conceded to reporters today that Democrats knew people would not be able to keep their current health care plans under Obamacare and expressed qualified contrition for President Obama’s repeated vows to the contrary.
“We knew that there would be some policies that would not qualify and therefore people would be required to get more extensive coverage,” Hoyer said in response to a question from National Review.
free free free....you are so lame...gosh, you limp when you try to think.
All your rebuttals are off topic. I guess you cannot defend the racist, election rigging (voter suppression is too mild...it is election rigging) econonmy stifling,war mongering,moneyed-elite,sexist GOP. lame lame lame.
gotta go...gotta date with my honey, Freida White-Birch...she is kind of stiff when she walks, but, boy, she is really knotty in bed. Love ta hug her.
We wonder what Chuckie would have said if a a Black congressman shouted "you lie" when Bush lied about aluminum tubes in order to send Americans to their deaths.
Yeah, we all know how Chuckie would have reacted. Hate the Black guy, of course.
Obama lies, nobody dies.
Bush lied, thousands died.
Clearly this means we should hate the Black guy, right, Chuckie?
Okjimm,
Poor Free's just grasping at straws and shotgunning his scattered arguments. He's lost focus as if he were succumbing to anger or something. This happens when true believers sense a threat to their cult beliefs.
being full of total bullshit...Defending Maxine Waters..."Maybe nationalizing Big Oil would be a good idea."Defending Van Jones..."Guess what, the Earth is a biosphere of ecosystems."...False equivalency for property seizure...another far left wacko
Wild accusations confirm my theory.(We remember a while ago when I tallied up, I think, 13 false accusations in one thread from him.)
Not only do I show him admitted evidence of vote suppression, I can also show him actual cases of people being denied access to polls over ID's.
But why bother playing his game by his rules. If he refuses to provide any evidence of voter impersonation fraud, why should I show him what he won't read anyway?
"ACORN!" "ACORN!" "Mickey Mouse!"
LOL! Except Micky didn't show up to vote did he? "Fraud!" "Fraud!" Except that was with absentee ballots, utterly irrelevant to voter ID laws.
Too bad Free can't just be honest and admit he wants fewer people to vote. Certain democratic voters to be specific.
Have you met Miss Maple? She's so sweet she gives me sugar. Gotta love her.
miss Maple? no....but I met her cousin....a real Beech.
And there it is, predictable as anything. Race card. With Dave Dubya you always know when he's got nothing left when it falls to aluminum tubes and hysterical shouting of racism.
Funny thing, I'm not even a white guy and he is. Not that whites have a monopoly on racism... just mostly.
Too bad Free can't just be honest and admit he wants fewer people to vote
Yes I have. Dead people, illegal aliens, felons, people who live outside the district, and minors. We want to keep them from voting.
LOL! Except Micky didn't show up to vote did he?
How would you know, we didn't check IDs.
..Funny thing, I'm not even a white guy//
even funnier... is the self portrait of yourself on your blog...when you bailed on it....
http://free0352.blogspot.com/
must have been after your 49th deployment, huh
I'm not even a white guy
You pass for white. Maybe you should ask a black guy who’s “playing the race card”.
LOL! Except Mickey didn't show up to vote did he?
How would you know, we didn't check IDs.
There’s this thing called a voter registration roll at the polls. They match voters with it. Mickey didn’t show up. Honest.
Too bad you base your anti-democracy ideology on that fiction, along with the rest of the GOP propaganda.
For an atheist you present your beliefs just like a cult member.
You pass for white
I'm as white as Barack Obama is.
I love it when I don't match your stereo type of what a Hispanic person looks like.
They match voters with it. Mickey didn’t show up. Honest.
He could have, all he would have needed to do was tell the people at the polls his name was the name of someone from the district who had died the day before. An individual could pull that 20 times a day around a state. Heck, with absentee balloting you don't even have to show your face. Which is how a lot of Democrats win elections. That's how its done in my home town.
You mean HALF Hispanic.
You're still not half black, really.
He could have,...but he DIDN'T...EVER.
how a lot of Democrats win elections...Sure, Rush we believe everything you say. No need for proof from you guys. Assertion is the same as reality to the far Right fringe. Again, how would ID laws fix that? Hmmm?
"Only that would make me a totally full of shit lying asshole." -Free123 said: ? he's Hispanic???? NAH, you're buste is what it is. With the 'self grandiosement' with wich you have embellished yourself over the years I have read this blog.... and now..you make the claim. Give me a break or give me a beer, but don't give me anymore bullshit.
If the topic had suited you...you would have been half-jewish, too.
plus...if I do remember correctly...you do not even vote...yet, you are an expert on voting. nope. you are nothing... and you know it... and it really bothers you. Maybe if you sign up for the ACA you can find a Doctor to help you.
You're still not half black, really.
Nope, I'm half white. As white as Barack Obama is.
Again, how would ID laws fix that?
The same way it makes sure of your identity when you use an ID to do anything. Like board an airplane.
Maybe I could get a burrito and speak some Spanish? What, you guys need me to dance around a sombrero and drink tequila?
Damn, my family has been in America probably longer than a lot of yours has. Except Dave because he's 1/343 Indian so his family has been here since the stone age. Maybe Dave can put on a headdress and trade some wampum with us to prove how native he is. Then he and Ward Churchill can go bowling. Not only are the probably equally indian I'm starting to wonder if they are the same guy.
... oh, and don't hold out for the Sombrero and the tequila. There isn't a drop of mexican to me. I know thats probably confusing to you that there are Hispanics who aren't from Mexico. I figured I'd better put that out since this crew gets confused so easily I can't count on you to get my joke.
Free0352: "If you don't have an ID in this day and age, its willful."
Sure. That's okay, though. Our Founders didn't require that IDs be carried. (I haven't read anything about that within the U.S. Constitution, anyway. Being a political science major, maybe you can direct me to the section in the Constitution that claims this.)
"...getting your ID checked at the polls the same way they check it to make a minor credit card purchase is tantamount to the a Nazi take over..."
Voting is a right. Making a "minor credit card purchase" is a privilege. There's no right to having a credit card. It's only a privilege. Remember the AMEX ad from the early '90s, "Card Membership has its Privileges"?
"...because showing an ID to get into a rated R movie is fine..."
Again, as above, going into a theater is view an R-rated film is not a right. It's strictly a privilege (based upon age).
"The same way it makes sure of your identity when you use an ID to do anything. Like board an airplane."
Boarding and flying on a commercial airliner is, as with the examples above, only a privilege. It is not a right. A person has to meet certain conditions in order to do this. If a person doesn't, he or she can be denied boarding. That privilege ends with the authority of the captain, or even the gate agent.
But, as expressed already, voting is not a privilege. It IS a right, as granted by the U.S. Constitution. Again, repeating what I already mentioned, because I'm almost certain that you have reading comprehension challenges, the Constitution does not require that a person carry any form of ID in order to prove who he or she is -- much less a photo-ID.
Free0352: "I know thats probably confusing to you that there are Hispanics who aren't from Mexico."
No, we know the difference. Apparently you don't understand the difference between race and ethnicity.
Speaking of...have you ever been involved with this gig? I've discovered that my parties need a little more "pizzazz". Can you help me out?
JG,
Real libertarians, civil libertarians such as ourselves, would be against the GOP campaign to suppress democracy. The Republicans love the neocon true believers of their "libertarian", aka shills for Big Money, wing.
Dave, it's unfortunate that libertarianism in the U.S. has been dominated by "Right-libertarianism", which we all know as the tea party. Their economic views are simplistic and theoretical at best, and would only work in the most controlled laboratory setting. With multinational corporate giants dominating the economic and political landscape worldwide, their wet-dream of creating a laissez-faire economic environment is foolish and naive, and totally absurd.
I do consider myself a civil libertarian, as you do also, and I see this brand of libertarianism as it relates to democracy and basic democratic values, that's promoted by "certain persons" on this blog, as totally corporatist. As you inferred, the Libertarian Party in this country has been bought-and-sold. Like the Republican and Democratic wings of the single "Corporatist Party", these "tea party" shills (i.e., Right-libertarians) pay homage to the same corporate masters.
Voting is a right.
Owning a gun is a right, and I not only have to show ID when I buy one, I have to under go a back ground check. So guess what, we put an ID check requirement on rights all the time. For example when you get a trial in court, the bailiff will check your ID in many cases to make sure you are who you say you are.
The fact is, there is nothing libertarian about voter fraud.
Voter fraud? What voter fraud? You haven't shown us any voter impersonation fraud. Your "justification" is the word of Republicans. And they admit they are attempting to suppress Democratic voters.
All you do is parrot your party line, like a true believer.
BTW, you can still own a gun without a photo ID. You can still shoot it without an ID.
You haven't shown us any voter impersonation fraud
I showed it to you in my own hometown. I showed it to you in Florida.
BTW, you can still own a gun without a photo ID.
And you can still have a representative represent you without an ID. You should only need an ID to vote, for the same reason you should show one when you buy a gun. After all, the stakes of voting are much higher. In national elections you're choosing who controls the nukes.
You STILL haven't shown us any voter impersonation fraud. Neither Mickey Mouse who doesn't show up, and some idiots with multiple absentee ballots, are cases of a person showing up at the polls impersonating another.
Therefore, You STILL haven't shown us any voter impersonation fraud.
And since you ignore registration restrictions and limiting poll access times, your case is 0 for 3.
AND since I've shown Republicans admitting to vote suppression, only your Right Wing Cult Bubble beliefs stand between you and reality.
If you believe "the stakes of voting are much higher", then how do you defend the House being controlled by a party with fewer votes?
What's the point in voting if the majority of voters lose and the minority party dictates policy?
SOME voters are MORE EQUAL than other voters in your ideology. More evidence of your authoritarian personality on display.
and some idiots with multiple absentee ballots, are cases of a person showing up at the polls impersonating another.
What do you think they were doing with those ballots dave?
What's the use of evidence with a true believer like YOU. Talk about a bubble. Or maybe just a cheat. Democracy indeed.
SOME voters are MORE EQUAL than other voters in your ideology.
Yes Dave. In OUR SYSTEM of a Representative Republic legislators only care about the voters in their districts and don't give a hoot about representing people three states away. That is the whole idea. That's how you prevent a dictatorship of New York, California and Texas. But of course, you want that dictatorship, and so all your talk about democracy is shown for the hypocrisy it is. What you really want is someone to redistribute the wealth TO YOU and anything that gets in the way you call anti-democratic.
Free0352: "Owning a gun is a right, and I not only have to show ID when I buy one, I have to under go a back ground check. So guess what, we put an ID check requirement on rights all the time."
As Dave already pointed out, but bears repeating: Nobody has to have an ID to own a gun. It's only in the transactional process of buying a gun that one is required. (It's one of those Commerce Clause jurisprudence things.) It's essentially a privilege to buy one. It's only once everything checks out, and the transaction is complete, that owning one becomes a right.
Once again, you're all wet. Are you sure you're not Mexican? ;-)
Free,
a dictatorship of New York, California and Texas
...is prevented by the other states. This is why states all have two senators. Fewer rural voters have proportionally greater representation in both the House and Senate than urban voters. Gerrymandering and vote suppression are the anti-democratic icing on the cake. Not enough imbalances for your dictatorship of elites, though, is it? This imbalance goes far in explaining why this nation is so regressive socially and more militaristic than more civilized countries.
What do you think they were doing with those ballots dave?
They were committing fraud with multiple absentee ballots, but not impersonation fraud at the polls. We have laws against that sort of thing.
SOME voters are MORE EQUAL than other voters in your ideology.
Yes Dave.
And there’s your authoritarian opposition to democracy and authoritarian support of minority rule. Aka dictatorship.
TO YOU and anything that gets in the way you call anti-democratic.
Anything that suppresses democracy is by nature anti-democratic. Why is that complicated for you?
JG,
It’s funny that Free uses air travel as justification for voter ID and suppression. We surrender our First and Fourth Amendment rights to fly.
As Dave already pointed out, but bears repeating: Nobody has to have an ID to own a gun. It's only in the transactional process of buying a gun that one is required.
And as I said, you don't need an ID to be represented, only to vote (in a few jurisdictions.) The federal government doesn't run elections, states do - and they can if they chose require an ID to make sure you are who you say you are. Requiring blacks to show ID and not whites would be a racist policy and violate the equal protection under the law clause of the 14th amendment. Requiring all voters to show ID is equal - and hardly a hardship.
But since we're misusing the commerce clause, riddle me this. Why then as a bailiff did I check IDs to make sure witnesses, defendants and even jurors were who they said they were? Is that in your mind constitutional?
This is why states all have two senators. Yes, and varying numbers of Congressmen depending on population. Both types of legislators do not care about citizens outside their districts nor should they. A representative from Idaho shouldn't be worrying about what is good for a district in Florida.
They were committing fraud with multiple absentee ballots
Yup, you take those ballots, put someone else's name on them and send 'em in. How on earth is that not ID theft voting? That stuff happens all the time in Detroit - ironically its usually Democrats stealing elections from each other. Not that you care about an honest process. Kwami Kilpatric - a huge drug dealer, racketeer and now convicted felon for corruption - was a notorious election fraudster and its his case in Detroit that made me pro card check. All his scams are public record, though they couldn't prove the vote fraud. How could they - they never checked IDs. But of course everyone knew it was going on - it was right in your face. His influence and the influence of his cabal of fraudsters is the reason some jurisdictions need these ID laws. So you don't have a drug dealer end up your mayor.
Both types of legislators do not care about citizens outside their districts nor should they.
Sure, but when most voters in Michigan, and as well as the entire US, voted for Democratic representation and still the GOP “wins”, it aint representative and it aint democracy. It’s minority rule. As that minority suppresses democracy and builds a surveillance state, it tilts towards fascistic dictatorship. The only missing element is military aggression. Bush the Decider fulfilled that category. Obama is nothing but a corporatist manager of empire. And that’s what happened to the “land of the free”.
“They were committing fraud with multiple absentee ballots”
And as I said we have laws against that.
What we don’t need are the additional restrictions on voter registration and poll access that your party is prioritizing in their war on democracy.
Wow. I have been away for many many months and it would seem that little has changed in my absence.
Are there racists in the Republican Party and even amongst their elected officials? I am sure there are, but they are very few and are hardly representative of the party. (BTW, it really pisses me off to have to stoop to defend the Republicans since they are nothing more than Democrat-lites.)
I am curious Dave, is it racist in your estimation for Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee, and most of the Congressional Black caucus to scream “racism” simply because someone disagrees with them on policy? Or is that simply demagoguery?
How about this current race for lieutenant governor in Virginia? http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/03/Civil-Rights-Leaders-React-to-VA-Dem-Lt-Gov-Candidate-Refusing-to-Shake-Opponent-s-Hand At the end of the debate, the Republican who happens to be a black gentlemen, extends his hand to his Democrat challenger who blatantly refuses to shake it. Does that make the Democrat a racist or simply uncivil? I know if the parties of the candidates were reversed, I suspect you and every other progressive would be screaming that it is both. I guarantee that would be the talking point on MS-NBC and every liberal pundit show. That said, I don’t think that idiot Democrat is representative of his party.
Of course many Democrats do seem to have a special hatred for black conservatives. And why wouldn’t you all be ticked at these “Uncle Tom’s that must hate their own race”? After all, how dare they not march in lockstep with the other 90% of their race in voting for the progressive candidate and ideology. How dare they think for themselves! It’s kind of like when Al Sharpton accused President Obama of being a “magic negro” because Sharpton didn’t think Obama was really “down for the cause” before he was first elected president. I guess Obama has proven otherwise now though since identity politics and destroying race relations seems to be one of his many specialties.
The only good thing is that your and the lefts’ constant battle cry of racism is now ringing hollow and empty to most Americans. Most people see it for the demagoguery that it truly is and realize that if someone disagrees with a person of color, chances are really good that it has nothing to do with that person’s skin pigmentation color. That is, unless you are a progressive. Then race always matters.
TP,
Good to see you. Hope you and yours are well.
Is it racist in your estimation for Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee, and most of the Congressional Black caucus to scream “racism” simply because someone disagrees with them on policy?
Do you have an example of persons who “scream racism” because someone disagrees with them, or is this hypothetical generalized resentment? Do you think these black people never felt the sting of racism and wouldn’t know it?
We have the words of several Republicans admitting to their voter suppression agenda. They know it primarily affects urban blacks and students. We’re talking about more than just ID’s too. The Republicans have made it more difficult for the League of Women Voters to assist with voter registration. They want to deny same day registration. They whine about fraud, yet they cannot show any serious numbers of voter impersonation cases. Republicans are also restricting poll access by ending early voting. They know more Blacks have utilized that option.
No racism there? Just regular democracy suppression then, I suppose. I’d say a party that opposes democracy is dangerous to our country. As you may have read, the GOP has control of the House despite the fact over a million more Americans voted for democratic representation. As I told Free, this is NOT representative and it is NOT democracy. The Koch brothers have more representation in Congress than the majority of Americans. Maybe you can’t see that as a problem.
I’m not sure if Northam saw Jackson’s gesture. Maybe he didn’t “refuse” at all. I have no way of knowing, but I would guess the two gentlemen shook hands after the camera was off. If not, then sure, I agree it was a bit uncivil of the Democrat. But we must note the uncivil interruptions Jackson interjected while Northam was speaking. Recall Northam let Jackson speak and then thanked the host for “letting me answer the question”. Northram never once interrupted Jackson. That was one courtesy that definitely went unreciprocated.
Obama destroying race relations?
Blaming the Black guy, of course, proves you’re not racist?
That is, unless you are a progressive. Then race always matters.
We see that you, as most on the far Right, have bought into the Limbaugh propaganda:
"You know, racism in this country is the exclusive province of the left."
Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates? "He's a racist," Mr. Limbaugh said. "He's an angry racist." Sonja Sotomayor? "She's a bigot. She's a racist," Mr. Limbaugh said.
President Obama? He's "the biggest reverse racist in history." – Rush Limbaugh
See a pattern here? You seem to buy this ideology of “not racist” resentment, despite your impossible to substantiate claim “but they are very few” racist Republicans.
Fine, even if they’re saying they’re “not racist”, while appearing, speaking and acting so, they sure as hell are antagonistic to democracy.
Nice club. But somebody needs to represent the exclusive interests and agenda of the economic elites, besides most of the Democrats.
but when most voters in Michigan, and as well as the entire US, voted for Democratic representation and still the GOP “wins”
Not true, but whatever.
How many times do I need to explain this Dave, the reason you don't think you a represented is because you aren't. Nobody wants the socialist leftist nonesense you want. Voters just aren't that into your political philosophy Dave. Not even Democrats. No wonder you need a system with no ID checks, how else could a progressive keep their job without a little fraud?
Blaming the Black guy, of course, proves you’re not racist?
The fact that, that is all you see it as - proves our point. Your argument is nothing, so resort to the race card and name calling.
Its what YOU always do Dave - along with your oversimplified bleating about aluminium tubes - when you're losing an argument.
Revisiting one of Free’s points:
Both types of legislators do not care about citizens outside their districts nor should they.
Except when the Kochs tell legislators in Michigan and Wisconsin they will be primaried if they don’t bust unions, an issue the Governor and few of them even ran on.
Proving my point that the Kochs have more representation than most Americans combined. It really is a Right Wing War on Democracy, unlike the poor brainwashed wackos told there’s a “War on Christmas”.
“most voters in Michigan, and as well as the entire US, voted for Democratic representation”
Not true, but whatever.
Wanna bet 10,000 bucks?
And this gem is pure “Free association”:
Blaming the Black guy, of course, proves you’re not racist?
The fact that, that is all you see it as - proves our point. Your argument is nothing, so resort to the race card and name calling.
Its what YOU always do Dave - along with your oversimplified bleating about aluminium tubes - when you're losing an argument.
“Blaming the Black Guy is just what you did” was referring to TP’s assertion about (Obama) “destroying race relations seems to be one of his many specialties.”
So to clarify Free’s Cult Bubble view, pointing out racism is racism. Merely pointing to the fact of real incidents of racism, or citing someone for “blaming the Black Guy” was “playing the race card”.
And this “proves our point” even? LOL! Amazing, but that’s the Cult Bubble view.
Well done, Rush.
It’s funny that my “oversimplified bleating about aluminium tubes” cannot be refuted by Free, yet he still thinks he’s “winning” when he scorns my winning point. He has lost the argument.
And what does a Rightie do when reality doesn’t support their view? Why, accuse the other guy of “playing the race card”, Cult Bubble Debate Rule No. 1
So who’s going to explain how (Obama) “destroying race relations seems to be one of his many specialties”, is NOT playing the race card?
Anyone?
Time to implement Cult Bubble Debate Rule No. 2.
Ignore the point and change the subject.
Dave, I’ll give you a few examples of how Obama has hurt race relations. He immediately inserts himself into issues which a president of any color should leave to local authorities.
First, regarding Louis Gates, he chimes in that the police acted “stupidly” even though by his own admission he didn’t know all of the facts of the case. He made assumptions simply on the basis that his black friend must have been persecuted. When it was eventually reported that Mr. Gates at first refused to show ID to prove that he was the legitimate owner of the house that others thought he might be breaking into, Obama chalked that up as racism. (Never mind the fact that the officer accused of racism was a long-time veteran that taught the department’s diversity and sensitivity training.)
Now if some by-stander saw me breaking into my house because I lost my keys and the cops showed up and asked for me to prove it was my house, I would do so and thank them for the vigilant response in protecting my property. I wouldn’t become combative and belligerent with them.
Next, when the idiot Zimmerman acted stupidly but ended up having to use deadly force to protect himself, Obama again jumps in without knowing the facts before a trial or investigation is done to decry the injustice and that Trayvon would be what his son would look like if he had one. Such inflammatory statements absolutely stoked the fires in Florida and very nearly caused riots after Zimmerman was acquitted. Obama’s so-called justice department even pressured the prosecutors to move forward on a case that they knew they could not win based on the evidence.
Obama has a habit of coming to the defense of people of color simply because of their color. He ought to keep his focus on national affairs and assume that local jurisdictions can justly handle things unless proven otherwise. Instead Obama wants to pit black people against white people and stir up distrust and hate, so it would seem.
So much for being a post-racial president that wanted to bring all Americans together. But what do I know? I am simply blaming the black man again, right?
TP,
I am simply blaming the black man again, right?
The honest answer is yes. And your accusation is a severe charge that requires serious support. This reminds us of fringe beliefs like “Liberals are destroying America” and the “UN New World Order” hysteria.
You accuse Obama of “destroying race relations”. Thank you for offering what you find to be evidence of this destruction of race relations. I appreciate that.
Let’s review my Gates Gate post which was based on the actual police report.
We all know what happened. Henry Louis Gates was returning home from China and found his front door jammed shut. A neighbor saw him attempting to push it open, called the police and reported a possible B and E. She mentioned in her call that the guy had luggage and may even live there.
Sgt. Crowley arrived to save the day. Soon professor Gates was placed in handcuffs, arrested and carted off to jail. So, what’s the big deal? Nothing stupid was done, right?
Yes, Gates did get upset and he made some remarks like the cop not knowing who he was “messing with”.
I read the officers’ report and learned that Gates presented ID after the officer had entered the house. Crowley stated Gates “appeared to be a resident but was uncooperative”. Gates was ill, tired, indignant and annoyed. Crowley asked Gates to “step out onto the porch and speak to me”.
That’s a smart way to calm someone down, right?
Crowley reported he was “led to believe Gates was lawfully in the residence”. Then as Crowley was leaving the residence he told Gates he would, “speak with him outside.” So Crowley was followed out onto the porch.
Professor Gates was then arrested for “exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior.”
I have 25 years of experience in a maximum security environment. I have been in many situations that required an even temperament to prevent people from getting hurt. After reading the cops' report, I see this could be a good teaching case for officers to learn about unnecessary escalation of an incident.
Crowley certainly could have been more professional about this. It was obvious that these were not young thugs attempting a B and E.
The “step outside” line could have been regarded as over-reaching and even threatening. The situation could have been de-escalated if the cop had a cooler head. After the cop knew Gates lived there, it was the officers’ presence that escalated the situation. Crowley should have left the scene. His business was finished. By his staying, the situation became a contest of egos, not a public safety matter.
Please tell us exactly how it hurt race relations for Obama to speak of the completely unnecessary and unprofessional arrest of his friend?
Obama was correct: “Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home.”
Is speaking the truth destroying race relations?
Please tell us exactly how it hurts race relations to sympathize over a frightened youth slain by his stalker?
You condemn Obama for “destroying race relations”.
Your words. And you’re telling us the two incidents above constitute “destroying race relations”?
So yes, you literally “blame the Black Guy”. And we see you base your extreme accusation on practically nothing.
being a post-racial president
What is “post racial” one may ask Wiki:
Post-racial America is a theoretical environment where the United States is devoid of racial preference, discrimination, and prejudice.
But Limbaugh and Beck say Obama is a racist. Go figure.
The far Right is full of such assertions.
Assertion is not fact.
And speaking of race relations, why would we blame just the Black Guy, and not the millions who resent having a Black Guy in the White House? Scapegoating and the Black Guy has had its day, one would think. Alas, we are not in a "post racial" world are we?
Except when the Kochs tell legislators in Michigan and Wisconsin they will be primaried if they don’t bust unions
Yeah... because the GOP never tried to pass right to work before those two came along... Get a grip. The Michigan GOP has been trying to pass that since the early 80s. And as one of those Michiganders who was all for it - I feel totally represented.
“oversimplified bleating about aluminium tubes...
Has nothing to do with race relations or voting laws.
Ignore the point and change the subject.
Exactly what you do.
Now back to voter laws.
Because showing an ID by law to buy a beer is okay, but showing it to vote is RAAAAAAACIST.
What else should we get rid of ID card checks for because it discriminates against black people? How have all these black people been buying beer and cigarettes and flying on airplanes all this time? Its all a conspiracy, just ask dave.
Now back to voter laws.
You mean back to your ONE point on ONLY ID’s, and complete evasion of the other laws and issues discussed.
Very selective of you. You lose.
Nobody cares that he's black.
Wrong again. Your leaders Rush and Beck have openly called Obama a racist. Your party is full of racists according to Col Wilkerson, a Republican.
Obama is corporatist according to me and Ron Paul. You may hate him for other reasons, of course.
With the subject of the post, and Scree7890 feeble attempt to change suibjects, and his last scream... I must say, he strikes me as racist... and slightly afflicted by meglomania. I would vote him most likely to take a loaded gun into a shopping mall.
Okjimm,
I'd say Free displays a certain type of racism, against the human race. His anger is not very well concealed at all. His rage is an example of the Right Wing tactic they call "mobilization of resentments". It goes hand in hand with their "Southern Strategy".
Limbaugh and Beck carry the race-baiting water for the Right with their accusations that Obama is a racist. Free carries the water for the anti-democracy campaign by the economic elites.
Both strategies are in service to minority rule and democracy suppression.
Dave...
I could not have said it better.
I just find it all reprehensible.
logic, common sense, rational thought have all seem to have fled the landscape. Fear rules, I am afraid. I guess I really do not have the political acumen to argue with someone like Free; it is kind of like yelling at the bag of doughnuts on the counter...mad because they went stale. I am not so inclined. I'll just resign them to the compost heap in hopes they may turn into something useful.
it reminds me of a Kurt Vonnegut quote from his novel, 'Mother Night'
"There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God Almighty Himself hates with you, too."
I always liked Vonnegut. so, one more, from the same novel.
"We must be careful about what we pretend to be."
have a good night. don't let the doughnuts go stale.
You mean back to your ONE point on ONLY ID’s
Yes, that's my only point. ID check isn't racist and suggesting it is, is just silly. Not that being silly has ever stopped you before.
. Your party is full of racists according to Col Wilkerson
Not my party, I'm a registered Libertarian who pays dues. And who is Col Wilkerson? Exactly. I could likely conjur someone from the Democrat either that would be glad to tell everyone the Democrats are racist too. Your selecting sources to confirm you bias, not seeking the truth. That is a sign of a totally closed mind, which is a sign of a lack of basic intelligence. You lose.
I guess I really do not have the political acumen to argue with someone like Free
Failure to stand up for which you believe is a sign of physical and emotional weakness.
I' learning so much about you all today.
His anger is not very well concealed at all.
What makes you think I'm trying to conceal my anger that rank and file Democrats - let alone their elected leaders - are responsible for the economic destruction we see in this country every day. Frankly, you're earned having people be angry at you, and I'm certainly not hiding it. I highly doubt you'll ever change your minds because liberal progressiveness is a faith belief and trying to talk someone out of it is like trying to talk a Catholic out of being Catholic. Every once in a while someone converts to sanity - but its rare and not because an atheist made them see reason in most cases.
With progressives its worse however. Religion is a personal choice that in most cases does't hurt anyone. Not Liberal Progressives, who are wrecking the economy.
liberal progressiveness is a faith belief
Gibberish. Your dogma is the untested hypothetical theory of every man for himself.
Speaking of standing up for one's beliefs, Free is utterly incapable of understanding why we stand up for democracy.
As Free stands up for his beliefs of every man for himself and this small sample of proven lies he fanatically believes in:
LIE #1: "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." -- President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.
LIE #2: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." -- President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.
LIE #3: "We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." -- Vice President Cheney on March 16, 2003 on "Meet the Press."
LIE #4: "[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." -- CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.
LIE #5: "We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints."-- President Bush, Oct. 7.
LIE #6: "We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States."-- President Bush, Oct. 7.
LIE #7: "We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established." -- President Bush, Feb. 8, 2003, in a national radio address.
LIE #8: "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets."-- Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council.
LIE #9: "We know where [Iraq's WMD] are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." -- Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003, in statements to the press.
LIE #10: "Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited." -- President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003.
How about that, we see that pesky "nukular" aluminum tubes lie that Free believes and stands up for at the top of the list.
#321 don't forget // that rank and file Democrats - let alone their elected leaders - are responsible for the economic destruction we see in this country every day//
ohohoh... it was the rank and file, ah.... it must have been them there folks that tanked the stock market
Okjimm,
So you heard about our Socialist/Wall Street meeting plotting to secure private profit at public cost. ;-)
Free's cult beliefs tell him it was all the liberals fault, everything. He is soooo Republican. His parroting of the GOP voter impersonation fraud myth tells us he's no civil libertarian.
It's funny seeing an atheist completely clueless to his own false belief system.
God bless him.
ha! break me up. I was raised a Christian...became a pagan, thought I was an athiest, then an agnostic. decisions, decisions,decisions.
like Woody Allen said, "I'm not sure if there is a here-after but I wear clean underwear just in case."
I'm lost as to what the Iraq war has to do with voting rights. I guess talking about that is easier than explaining why showing an ID to vote the same way you do when you get on an airplane is akin to Jim Crow. Look out every body, asking someone to do the same thing they do when they rent a car means the KKK is back!
Dave is changing the subject because ID card check isn't racist. At all. Its disrupting voter fraud... if you like democracy so much... you have to have fair elections that are monitored. But whoah nooooes! Can't have that! We'll just pick the people who have their finger on the nuke button on the honor system! Yup... that is seriously the contention here. And when it gets uncomfortable - switch subjects! Quick!
The Iraq War is an example of the beliefs you were crowing about standing up for, remember?
Along with "Liberal Progressives, who are wrecking the economy", this is your dogma, your religion, that is free from all doubt and re-consideration. You are a true believer standing on your own pedestal and preaching beliefs. I'm merely noting the fact your beliefs are cult dogma of the far Right.
"Switch subjects", you project, as you completely ignore two thirds of the case I've made:
To the true believers who spout the GOP/Limbaugh Line on the myth of voter impersonation fraud, I suppose words matter more than facts or actions.
And as much as you're party howls in fake outrage over a fake problem, they take it much further than ID's.
You forget that part.
Their war on democracy is bigger than ID's. It's restricting voter registration and poll access. Show us the imaginary "problem" those fix.
Oh, that's right. The more voters, the more Republicans lose.
That IS a problem, isn't it?
No wonder they need to rig the system so they control the House with over a million less votes than dems. But I suppose ONE case of voter impersonation is far more destructive to democracy, eh?
So why do you suppose that the avid supporters of restricting voter registration and limiting poll access can't show us more than a dozen cases of actual voter impersonation they want to protect us from?
Your case is purely faith based on blind acceptance of the Republican Party propaganda.
Yet in your mind, you're convinced that you think for yourself.
You are a true believer.
"Switch subjects", you project, as you completely ignore two thirds of the case I've made:
Yes, because the Iraq war has tons to do with voter fraud and ID check at the polls. Nope.
Change that subject Dave.
AS your "the case you've made" you found some low level nobody and claimed he represented all republicans, then called all republicans racist. You know "pre judging them." Being prejudice.
Truth is, you've got no case, you've got no argument, you've got nothing. All you can do is hilariously claim that Republicans hate black people because they want to require voters do do something they likely do 10 times a week - show an ID. Its just laughable. You're post is laughable. How can anyone be expected to take that seriously?
Anyway if I were trying to defend that hot mess, I'd switch subjects too. This isn't the jail dave, you can't just say whatever you want about normal people like you can the inmates and have it believed because the system is set up against them. Nope, in the real world outside the fence we want to be convinced. All you do here is make a non-argument and then a handful of your progressive palls all circle jerk it. Nobody but Paine and I stop to say - "Um, what do you got to prove that?"
You've got a low level functionary, maybe. When your argument is 37 million Republicans are all racist - that isn't just thin. Its nonexistent.
Free0352 to Dave Dubya: "All you do here is make a non-argument and then a handful of your progressive palls all circle jerk it. Nobody but Paine and I stop to say - 'Um, what do you got to prove that?'"
I've been reading this thread with amused anticipation.
As Dave remarked, I also believe you're defending a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. That I'm aware of, there is no statistical data that supports the massive voter fraud claim you believe to be occurring. Please relate what you have that proves massive voter fraud. (Please don't relate solitary instances, as you did already have. This proves nothing, and as you know is statistically meaningless. there will always be outliers.)
Now, what we should be talking about is electoral fraud, such as what placed an illegitimate "winner" in the White House in 2001. I have to say, your compliance and acceptance of this is what lends zero credibility to your faux angst about this whole matter.
But, I've learned to accept so much. Tools are tools, which is what makes this so entertaining! (Or do you prefer to be called a "bitch"? You never did answer me.)
Free0352: "Not Liberal Progressives, who are wrecking the economy."
You are entertaining! And to think, I pay nothing for this!
Just a side note, if "liberal progressives" had our way, we'd slash the Department of War's budget to a bare minimum, we'd obliterate the security state, and we'd totally dismantle the military-industrial complex. Then...the budget would be balanced in about two years and we'd all live happily ever after.
Dave Dubya to Okjimm: "So you heard about our Socialist/Wall Street meeting plotting to secure private profit at public cost."
I heard about that too!
It happens every day, actually. (I mean the externalizing of private costs at the public's expense.) But Free0352 refuses to comment on this aspect of capitalism whenever I ask him about it, or bring it up in an open forum. I suspect he knows I'm totally right, and therefore refuses to answer because it would mean his complete paradigmatic view of libertarianism would have to be shelved. That, or he doesn't have a fucking clue what I'm referring to.
Strangely, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. (Yes, I'm wondering why I'm doing this, also.)
Free,
Change that subject Dave.
So you take back your "stand up for your beliefs" distraction after I showed your Cult Bubble's false beliefs? Yes we understand.
And not only did you change the subject, you failed to address two-thirds of the vote suppression issue I have mentioned. This means you lose the debate.
You're post is laughable.
Yes, the facts of politicized racism and voter suppression by authoritarian politicians would tickle an authoritarian personality.
When your argument is 37 million Republicans are all racist - that isn't just thin. Its nonexistent.
Yes, indeed. Your straw man is non-existent. So what did I REALLY say?
JG,
Free and the rest of the far Right cannot comprehend that liberals are ignored by government. Like fascists, they need scapegoats. When the dictatorship of the Far Right takes over completely, liberals will be the Jews of their Fourth Reich. We will be scapegoated and punished.
If their "liberal menace" were a reality, we'd have single payer healthcare along with what you listed.
They cannot comprehend, under their direction, the US is a Right Wing corporatist military empire. And we agree with Ron Paul, Obama is a corporatist.
As amply demonstrated, the far Right has it's Bubble View of not only the world, but they desperately need to cling to their manufactured demonized notions of those of us not in their cult.
I have to say that the Cult Bubble is large. It has to be to hold all those Straw Man factories.
//Socialist/Wall Street meeting plotting to secure private profit at public cost.//
JG & Dave... another such meeting is planned for today..right after the Wisconsin Badger game... Madison, Wi. Beer provided, BYO radical socialistic commie viewpoints.
re: voter ID...what Free will not acknowldege is that the "ID" most election rigging laws required is extremely selective. ie...most student IDs, though a government issued, are not accepted. The rigging laws themselves are expensive... not only a waste of legislative time and effort, but those IDs are not cheap. ie.....a Wisconsin ID, not unlike a driver's license, had a cost of about $25. NOw, they must be issued for free to avoid being called a poll tax. very efficient. For a party that trumpets fiscal frugality, Republicans sure like to spend.
I'll bring my most "radical socialistic commie viewpoint". We call it democracy.
hhhhmmmmm is that a Lager Democracy or an Ale Democracy?
Lager friendly, but ale preferred. No "Bud Miller" and his corporate clones, please.
no no no no 'big brewery beer'... stuff shouldn't be even labeled beer. Lucky I live in area where small brewers are flourishing.
try this is you can get it
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/652/16062
That I'm aware of, there is no statistical data that supports the massive voter fraud claim you believe to be occurring.
Firstly, I don't know how big the problem is - there is no way of knowing. We don't check IDs, so how on earth would you know someone is faking? There is no proof of identification. Without voter ID, I could flatten your car tiers on election day and steal your vote and nobody would know who I was.
Please relate what you have that proves massive voter fraud.
Elections -even federal ones- are run at state level. My state has a real problem with voter fraud. Maybe yours doesn't. If not, great. Mine does. I linked a story to my hometown where guys were caught with a bunch of absentee ballots. Dave tied to brush that off, but obviously these guys were going to say they were who they weren't and participate in election fraud. We've had a lot of scandals like that in Michigan - especially Detroit. Part of the problem is we can't tell how bad the problem is because we don't have a voter ID law. But its bad, hell everybody knows Detroit's felon mayor Kwami Kirkpatrick stole his election, everybody in Detroit knows it... but it can't be proven or stopped without voter ID law. They caught his office going to nursing homes and hospitals writing down names before the election. Why do you think that is? Voter fraud is a problem in the Detroit area. Big time. We need a law to stop it. Voter ID is that law.
NOw, they must be issued for free to avoid being called a poll tax
That's fine. I simply say issue a voter registration card with a picture on it. Yes, for free.
But Free0352 refuses to comment on this aspect of capitalism whenever I ask him about it,
Specific link please. I won't comment about a meeting I don't know about. Are there companies who get bail outs? Yes. I support ending all bail outs and subsidies to any industry, individual regardless of net worth, company, corporation, organization, charity, church, institution - you name it. What more do you want to know? I don't know how that could be clearer. Basically, if you weren't hired as an employee or retired as an employee, or won or are subject to a contract to provide a good or service or payments for having supplied a good or service - you shouldn't get one penny of tax money. Ever. Period. No exceptions.
Still confused?
But like the Iraq war, I don't know what that has to do with racism or voter laws?
BTW Dave, is it racist when you guards check ID's when the visitors come to the jail?
Free0352 "Without voter ID, I could flatten your car tiers on election day and steal your vote and nobody would know who I was."
Firstly, I don't have a "tier" of cars -- only one. I don't have the means to drive a BMW one day, and, possibly, a Mercedes on another. ;-)
In my state there are multiple ways one can "prove" who they are when they cast their ballot, least of which is just a utility bill showing their address. There's no need for a picture-ID (yet). One can (believe it or not!) just show their voter registration card, which, by the way, is picture-less.
The process works fine. There have never been any allegations of voter fraud due to impersonations, etc. Like I previously said, although there might be cases, they're statistically insignificant.
Now, let's talk about electoral fraud through those electronic voting machines. Now, that's a real possibility! (Which, I assume, isn't a problem in your eyes.)
I, Jefferson's Guardian, previously mentioned to Dave Dubya and Okjimm: "[Capitalism gets away with] the externalizing of private costs at the public's expense.", to which I summarized with, "[Free0352] doesn't have a fucking clue what I'm referring to."
Free0352, responded with: "Specific link please. I won't comment about a meeting I don't know about."
I stand by my latter assertion, and I rest my case: Free0352 is, beyond a shadow of any possible doubt, hopelessly and completely clueless.
Okjimm: "...another such meeting is planned for today..."
Wish I could be there! Possibly you could invite Free0352 and provide a quick-and-dirty lesson on the economic term, "externality". ;-)
Dave Dubya: "Lager friendly, but ale preferred. No 'Bud Miller' and his corporate clones, please."
I second that motion!
A "nanobrewery" just opened this past summer in the town I live near. The freshness and taste is incomparable.
Maybe one day we can all go out for a real beer together (assuming the detention center grants us such privileges for exhibiting stellar behavior).
no statistical data that supports the massive voter fraud claim
“Firstly, I don't know how big the problem is - there is no way of knowing.”
So what do you do? You take the Republicans word for it. You are a true believer. You’d be converted if such a thing as the “Republican Jehovah’s Witnesses” showed up at your door.
And speaking of beliefs, you said, “Failure to stand up for which you believe is a sign of physical and emotional weakness.” And “the Iraq war, I don't know what that has to do with racism or voter laws?”
I responded, “Speaking of standing up for one's beliefs, Free is utterly incapable of understanding why we stand up for democracy.
You stand up for your beliefs of every man for himself (you shouldn't get one penny of tax money. Ever. Period. No exceptions.). We get that. But your beliefs don’t end there. We listed a small sample of proven lies you fanatically believes in. You fanatically trust and believe the words Republicans used to excuse their vote suppression
See the connection? Voter laws, racism, Iraq...etc You embrace the far Right ideology. You buy into groundless warmongering lies. You buy into baseless assertions of voter impersonation fraud offered by Republicans, and condemn me for “Failure to stand up for which you believe”.
You still ignore two thirds of the far Right’s vote suppression campaign. This means you lose the debate. You conflate the single issue of ID’s into something we already have laws against. You offered evidence that the laws are being applied even.
From your link:
It is a felony to possess or return absentee ballots unless you are the person voting, the voter's family member, a mail carrier, or an authorized official.
My point stands.
BTW Dave, is it racist when you guards check ID's when the visitors come to the jail?
So now you want the exercising of our rights to conform to maximum security rules? Very, very authoritarian of you.
“most voters in Michigan, and as well as the entire US, voted for Democratic representation”
“Not true, but whatever.”
Wanna bet 10,000 bucks?
Well, aren’t you going to “stand up for your beliefs”?
I really think that Free may have a closed head injury that has something to do with his rage and inability to process rational discussion.
Or he's just another thick-skulled authoritarian true believer.
Either way, calm, rational thinking is gone.
JG... well, if you are ever this way.
http://oblios.wix.com/draft-beer...
there is a good spot...
27 taps and plenty of socialist beer folk. often the home brews bring in their own to share. how commie of them.
free on voter ID...//Firstly, I don't know how big the problem is - there is no way of knowing.//
break me up...he aknowledges that there may, just, not, be, a problem. He doesn't know.
I personally do not know how many elephants go ice fishing illegally...because they all wear snowmobile suits and it is hard to tell.
elephants go ice fishing illegally
LOL! What more proof do we need for mandatory photo ID's for all elephants? But wait. The Republicans will tell us only donkeys go ice fishing illegally.
Yes, that must be true, then. Just for safety's sake, let's shorten the fishing season and only allow it at lakes Republicans choose. Just like they do with early voting, poll access, and voting machines. And above all one elephant vote is worth two donkey votes.
least of which is just a utility bill showing their address.
So print up a fake bill. Can do it in five seconds with a PDF and photoshop. Hell, you could make a good fake on word and have a bot enter in the names. You need a photo ID, state issued. Period. Heck, I could just steal your mail while I was flattening your TIRES.
There's no need for a picture-ID (yet). One can (believe it or not!) just show their voter registration card, which, by the way, is picture-less.
So start putting a picture on it. Simple way to fix this problem. And where I live, its a problem.
Now, let's talk about electoral fraud through those electronic voting machines
I'm not so much worried about voting on a machine, its the computers that count the votes. They can be hacked. Of course, if human beings count the votes, they can be corrupted too - though it would seem to be harder to corrupt several hundred people vs one computer system. I'm not familiar enough with how those machines work to honestly have an educated opinion. If you want to have that be a human driven process, I don't have a problem with it.
I do have a problem with not checking IDs at the polls.
So what do you do? You take the Republicans word for it
I can't speak for where you live, but where I live its a problem. I know its a problem because here its common knowledge. Its up there with water is wet, and the sky is blue. A voter ID law is needed in Michigan. Probably not so much up in the UP, but in the greater Detroit area its needed badly. Elections are run by states, if your state is fine, then fine. Here its all fucked up.
, “Speaking of standing up for one's beliefs, Free is utterly incapable of understanding why we stand up for democracy.
SO write a post on the Iraq war. Here I'm talking about election fraud. I don't feel like changing this subject and letting you slip out of explaining how showing an ID card to vote is racist. Explain it to me. Post on the blog an Iraq war post, I'll be happy to address it just as I've addressed it countless times on this blog before.
Now Dave, how is it that asking for an ID to vote is racist? You said it was, that it proves Republicans are racist. So explain that, and don't use some low level nobody in North Carolina as your proof. That isn't proof. That's just some guy.
See the connection?
So if I am blindly trusting of Republicans, explain my not voting for Republicans, pro gay rights stance, anti-corporate welfare stance, opposition to warrantless surveillance, support of certain cuts to the defense budget, ending of subsidy to GOP favored sons (and everyone else), support of open boarders, opposition to the drug war, opposition to tort reform among many, many others?
Your point is stupid. I sometimes agree with Republicans. I also sometimes agree with Democrats - does that make me a Democrat?
BTW, you never answered any of my questions. Are you racist when you check IDs at your prison on visiting day?
I do have a problem with not checking IDs at the polls.
So, it’s your unfounded “problem”, and the Republicans “problem” of too many voters, not ours.
Now Dave, how is it that asking for an ID to vote is racist? You said it was, that it proves Republicans are racist.
Again, what did I REALLY say? Really, you need to correctly quote, or refer to a specific point, to debate it. Your straw men are plentiful.
don't use some low level nobody in North Carolina as your proof. That isn't proof. That's just some guy.
You mean just some “not racist” Republican guy, doing what “not racist” Republicans are doing all across the nation. If actions adversely affect one race over others, it could be seen as racist, you know. But that’s not the point. The point is voter suppression of all non-republican voter demographics. It’s just icing on the cake for racists. Racists LOVE the GOP vote suppression. They really do. So you may not be a racist, but you share their support for black voter disenfranchisement.
but where I live its a problem. I know its a problem because here its common knowledge. Its up there with water is wet, and the sky is blue. A voter ID law is needed in Michigan.
Again, it is you and Republicans who have the problem. Democracy suppression is your answer. Have you noticed anything, other than just ID’s, we’re talking about?
And speaking of ID’s.
By law, every Michigan voter must present picture identification at the polls, or sign an affidavit attesting that he or she is not in possession of picture identification.
So, what planet is your “Michigan” on?
Are you racist when you check IDs at your prison on visiting day?
We see you couldn’t comprehend my response that maximum security facilities are not polls where people exercise their rights.
I also sometimes agree with Democrats
You don’t say...
So how about that $10,000 bet?
C’mon, stand up for your beliefs.
Really, you need to correctly quote, or refer to a specific point, to debate it
Ok.
You mean just some “not racist” Republican guy, doing what “not racist” Republicans are doing all across the nation. If actions adversely affect one race over others, it could be seen as racist, you know. But that’s not the point. The point is voter suppression of all non-republican voter demographics. It’s just icing on the cake for racists. Racists LOVE the GOP
How bout that? In your post, you point to some guy - who has since left the GOP - who holds the absolute lowest official post in all of the GOP as evidence that an entire party of 47 million people is racist? That's like saying that because some random guy somewhere in America is a racist all 300 million Americans (including the blacks both in the GOP and out of it) are racists and love racists.
That's dumb Dave.
Democracy suppression is your answer.
That's why more people (including more minorities) voted in the last election in Texas -the state whose voter laws I want mine to emulate. This claim is false, because it doesn't do what you claim it does - discourage voting. Turns out most people - even poor black ones - have ID. Probably because you need an ID to do everything else besides vote.
So, what planet is your “Michigan” on?
The one where all you need to do to impersonate a person at the polls is put your fake name on a worthless piece of paper.
We see you couldn’t comprehend my response that maximum security facilities are not polls where people exercise their rights.
I would hope we'd treat the ballot box - which in federal elections chooses the guy who has his finger on the button of the nukes - with the same level of security we show towards guarding first time, mid level marijuana dealers and dudes with more than 3 DUIs. But I guess in your world, the honor system is good enough - or is it you'd miss the fraud? I can't decide if you're into cheating or naive.
C’mon, stand up for your beliefs.
Write a post on it. I'm not letting my question go. Explain to me how showing an ID to vote is racist.
Free0352: "So start putting a picture on it. Simple way to fix this problem. And where I live, its a problem."
I dug-out my "voter card" out this morning. (I mistakenly called it a "voter registration card", previously.) It was issued in 1991. It lists my name, my address (with the previous zip code before it was changed) and my polling location. That's it -- nothing more. It works fine, and that's all that's needed. If it did have a picture, it would be over 22 years old. How would that solve your imaginary problem? A picture from 22 years ago would barely look like me now. How would the precinct official, a volunteer, make a distinction as to whether that's really me or not? If she or he believes it isn't, would she or he have the authority to not allow me my voting rights -- because the picture has a man with dark hair and is much younger, whereas I have gray hair?
If voter fraud is such a problem where you live, please provide the statistical data showing this. Because, frankly, I don't believe you.
"I'm not so much worried about voting on a machine, its the computers that count the votes. They can be hacked."
The machines are computers!
"...though it would seem to be harder to corrupt several hundred people vs one computer system."
Ya' think?...
"I'm not familiar enough with how those machines work to honestly have an educated opinion."
Apparently they don't want you to be familiar, or to even know the extent to which electoral fraud occurs.
Get familiar!
"I'm not familiar enough with how those machines work to honestly have an educated opinion."
hahahahahahahahaha....
a) none of your opinions smack of education
b) a lack of familiarity has never stopped you before
c) you seem to have a total lack of how the voting process works........ BECAUSE YOU DON't VOTE
JG and Okjimm,
Somehow I don't think Free has a problem with corporate hackers rigging corporate voting machines to elect corporatist candidates to run their corporatocracy.
Just a hunch.
Free,
Well, at last, and at least, you quoted me. Very good. Too bad your argument was against your straw man and not my words. You just can’t help yourself.
as evidence that an entire party of 47 million people is racist... And the scarecrow is off to see the Wizard.
More people voting is good. Republicans don’t like that. The greater the voter turnout, the more Republicans lose. And even more would be voting if not for their putting their anti-democracy jackboot to registration and poll access.
you need to do to impersonate a person at the polls is put your fake name on a worthless piece of paper
Sounds scary. Like the Wicked Witch of the West. How do we stop her, Dorothy?
So Michigan has a voter ID law. Show us all those flying monkeys...er....impersonations, or keep your far Right fringe phobia to yourself, please.
same level of security
So you propose we scan and frisk all voters too? How authoritarian of you. Your idea of Democracy is a police state. Just as we suspected all along.
showing an ID to vote is racist
Who said it is? It’s not, I show my ID when required.
Once again, my point:
The point is voter suppression of all non-republican voter demographics. It’s just icing on the cake for racists.
Now about that bet...
My statement: “most voters in Michigan, and as well as the entire US, voted for Democratic representation”
Your statement: “Not true, but whatever.”
Wanna bet 10,000 bucks?
C’mon, stand up for your beliefs.
----
Oh, and happy Veterans Day.
My brother served with the 101st in Vietnam in ‘66. He came home intact, albeit with some Agent Orange in his body.
He told me I would be nuts to enlist. I listened.
Here’s hoping you don’t have DU slowly eating your insides. Sorry about your head and back injuries.
You deserve a free coffee at Starbucks. I’d even buy you a beer.
It works fine, and that's all that's needed. If it did have a picture, it would be over 22 years old. How would that solve your imaginary problem?
Same way we do it with a DL, every couple of years it expires and you have to go in and get a new one.
Because, frankly, I don't believe you.
How on earth do you analyze voter fraud when you have no way of concrete identifying voters? What you're asking for is impossible under current law - and that sounds like a convenient coincidence.
In Michigan
Especially in the Metro Detroit, Ann Arbor, and Jackson areas its a problem.
Its wide spread.
South East Michigan is rife with it. Its an electoral tradition down here.
And there is now no way to get you the data you want; not without ID check.
Convenient isn't it? "No problem here! Show me some data! Oh and BTW, we claim any data collection method using the checking of IDs to vote is raaaacist."
Last election I saw an arabic guy claiming an obviously black name. Something like Tyrese Watkins. Yeah, it was BS, but the polling place had to take him. Too bad they couldn't make him produce an ID. No, no. Of course he'd forgotten his.
As for electronic voting machines, no. I'm not familiar with how they work. And you probably aren't either. Have you ever worked on one, ran one, used one? Yeah, no - you haven't. I can admit when I'm not knowledgeable about a subject. But I did say if you wanted some other system, that would be fine so long as the humans doing the counting are monitored and there is appropriate chain of custody of the ballots.
My point is, there hasn't been a free and fair election in living memory in Detroit or its suburbs. If you love democracy so much, you might want to do something about that. Elected officials in Detroit are an oligarchy put in through fraud. That isn't any kind of government, its just gangsterism. That's why I don't live there anymore and wouldn't. Detroit's leadership isn't legitimate, its a criminal enterprise. Every once in a while they even get caught. We have a serious corruption problem here.
I don't think Free has a problem with corporate hackers rigging corporate voting machines
Sure I do. And like I said - I think you can defraud any system electronic or otherwise. So if you want to use some other system, that's fine so long as that system is an improvement. I've never used an electronic voting machine, so I can't really speak to the subject. Frankly, I don't care either way. As for its potential, you can hack a computer or stuff a ballot box. Nothing is 100% secure in this world. But I don't object to trying to make it more secure than it is.
More people voting is good. Republicans don’t like that
That which you freely assert I can freely deny. But for sure, the GOP and me too for that matter want to keep felons, dead people, illegal aliens and people from other districts from voting.
howing an ID to vote is racist
Who said it is? It’s not, I show my ID when required.
So what is your problem with it then? It didn't reduce voter turn out in Florida, or Texas. If it didn't reduce it there, I highly doubt it will reduce it anywhere else. You've got no evidence ID check reduces turnout. I've got plenty that it doesn't. Recent evidence from last year. Texas and Florida had record turn out, especially among minorities. So by your own admission ID check isn't racist, and the 2013 election shows it doesn't effect turn out. What is your point then? I think you just want to scream RACISM at the GOP.
Your race card is worn out.
As for Michigan's ID law - having the option of signing your fake name to a worthless piece of paper isn't ID check.
Free,
DD: "More people voting is good. Republicans don’t like that."
Free: "That which you freely assert I can freely deny."
There you go again, making unfounded assertions
I assert with evidence of Republicans openly admitting to it. You simply assert because of your cult beliefs. You’d make a great fundamentalist.
"We do make it convenient for people to vote. But I have to tell you, I don't have a problem making it harder. I want people in Florida to want to vote as bad as that person in Africa who walks 200 miles across the desert. This should not be easy. This should be something you should do with a passion." - Florida Senate Republican Mike Bennett
“Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania — done.” - Majority leader of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives, Mike Turzai
"I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of the people. They never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”– Heritage Foundation co-founder Paul Weyrich
You’ve already lost the debate. All you do his scream “Race Card”, and ignore the issues of registration restrictions and limited poll access, AND all evidence.
Lucky for you I provide documentation that supports my point; as you did too, thank you very much.
Thanks for your links. We note that two are redundant versions of your earlier link to the absentee ballot fraud.
We have laws against this. GOP rules of ID’s at the polls, restricted times for registration, and limiting access to polls do NOTHING to stop this problem. We got laws on the books, and by all accounts we see they are effective.
And the same is true for your link to the massive election fraud in Detroit. In fact it looks like Republicans are playing dirty again on that count. Big surprise.
I’m betting you didn’t read the whole article, and not the author’s comment later.
It seems you linked to a story about GOP election fraud:
“Massive Fraud In Detroit Election A Big Deal For Michigan”
The fraud appears to have been carried out with the assistance of election officials, who provided the fake challengers with access to the Absent Voter Counting Boards and to the ballot templates, two weeks in advance of the ballot being released to the public.
Question: “Wait, Detroit has elections? I thought they were an EFM (Republican Emergency Manager) dictatorship. And which party is accused of the electoral theft here?”
Randa Morris replys:
“There’s so much to this story. I will probably be doing at least one follow up piece, since the state just raised the fees to do a recount on Friday, making them 15x higher than what were on Thursday. This was the democratic primary. Let’s just say that Duggan would be the first white mayor of Detroit in 40 years and the reason he did not qualify for the ballot is because he is not from Detroit nor has he lived in the city long enough to qualify to be placed on the ballot. You see how this works right? Duggan has to win the democratic bid, that way regardless of who wins the actual election, a Republican corporate hack will be in control of the city. They will not need an EM after that. If they get caught the democrats committed voter fraud… unless they can trace that phone or youtube page, and it leads back to someone that they can clearly connect with the Tea Party/GOP, and what are the chances? Just look at who is opposing the recount, the GOP and Tea Party, not the democrats.”
Thanks for the link to GOP election rigging. You add to our case against the Right’s war on democracy. But fear not. Snyder will suppress this investigation through his unelected and unaccountable EM.
Detroit's leadership isn't legitimate, its a criminal enterprise.
Yes, now run by Snyder’s GOP cronies taking the place of Kilpatrick.
So your cult beliefs say the 2013 election shows it doesn't effect turn out.
Here are just nine examples of the kinds of people being denied voting rights by Voter ID laws.
For more of the GOP Denying the right to vote
In Florida, the worst offender, the average wait was 45 minutes. A separate analysis by Ohio State engineering professor Theodore Allen estimated that some 201,000 Sunshine State voters left the lines in frustration, unable to exercise their right.
This is hardly a new problem: nationally, 1.67 million voters were prevented or deterred from voting in 2008 as a result of long lines. The disparities aren’t new either — white suburbanites in Ohio waited an average of 22 minutes to cast ballots in 2004, while urban blacks waited an average of three hours and 15 minutes. One voter arrived at her polling place at Ohio’s Kenyon College that year to find a wait of more than nine hours. The final votes at Kenyon were not cast until 4 a.m. the following morning. Not everyone could wait in that line, and those who had children to care for or had to be at work the next morning were less likely to hang around than others.
I suppose since this isn’t from the GOP, FOX(R) or Limbaugh, your cult dogma must obstruct the processing of this information.
By all evidence my point stands. Voter turnout, though elevated, would have increased even more if not for the radical Right’s war on democracy.
For the benefit of those who may actually read, we have more evidence of GOP election tampering.
Virginia GOP Changes Rules To Suppress Liberal Votes In Tight Race AFTER Election
Now about that bet...
When are you going to stand up for your beliefs?
Whatsamatter, can’t put your money where your mouth is?
You could do the rational thing and admit you were wrong.....LOL.
Perish the thought, that’s against cult rules.
I, however, continue to stand up for democracy and the American way.
Paul Weyrich is not a Republican Party official, he is a think tank employee. Mike Turzai was talking about stopping voter fraud. There are more than a few of us who think voter fraud is pretty common among Democrats. That's true in some areas - Detroit being one. I don't know about PA - but I'm willing to say Turazi thinks it is. I happen to think with voter ID you'll see more GOP victories - not because it denies the vote, but it denies the fraud.
As for Florida Senate Republican Mike Bennett, I want some context. Provide a link.
Either way, you've got what now, two actual Republicans out of a party of 47 million. Hardly evidence. Show me a poll from a legitimate source that shows Republicans want to limit voting rights. It wouldn't be hard to find one where Republicans would want to limit gay rights, or come down with both feet on illegal aliens - its not like they hide when they don't like something.
We note that two are redundant versions of your earlier link to the absentee ballot fraud.
I was hammering the point home. Redundancy was intentional.
As for the EM, I've long said they should have never had one - and forced Detroit into bankruptcy right from the start. That way a JUDGE can sell assets, cancel debt and get Detroit back into the black. But as for the EM, Kevyn Orr is a registered Democrat... He got the job because he's managed some big time corporate bankruptcies. I think he never should have had a job. Detroit's problems can't be fixed politically because of the corruption - its going to require a judge and the might of law.
Here are just nine examples of the kinds of people being denied voting rights by Voter ID laws.
Wow. All 9 huh?
This is hardly a new problem: nationally, 1.67 million voters were prevented or deterred from voting in 2008 as a result of long lines.
So many people were voting, the lines were too long. So much for it deterring voting.
As for GOP election tampering, they certainly tampered with their 2011 primary election. I would note, that voter ID law would make it harder for Republicans to steal votes just as it would Democrats.
Bottom line, if you don't have an ID in this day and age - that is willful. It doesn't deter voting - and if the lines are long I'd ask the people running the polls why they are dragging ass when it takes about 5 seconds to look at an ID picture, and check the name against the registration rolls. Sounds like a local problem. Probably a bunch of Democrats who don't like the law screwing up the system and blaming it on checking IDs.
As for 2008 election, Barack Obama drew out record numbers of voters. It was a fluke that wasn't repeated in 2012 and probably won't be in the future. The man was on fire in 2008 that is for sure. I don't think anyone expected him to get the vote out as much as he did - to his political credit. I don't know, I didn't see it. I voted for Bob Barr absentee - from Baghdad. And before I saw the voting assistance officer - I had to show my ID. I didn't mind.
"We are different from previous generations of conservatives... We are no longer working to preserve the status quo. We are radicals, working to overturn the present power structure of this country” – Paul Weyrich 1984
Paul Weyrich is not a Republican Party official
So why is he one of The 25 Most Influential Republicans? LOL!
You’re a marvel of radical Right Wing denial of reality and devotion to dogma.
Mike Turzai was talking about stopping voter fraud. There are more than a few of us who think voter fraud is pretty common among Democrats.
Thank you. We know you are a true believer in the GOP party line.
Show me a poll from a legitimate source that shows Republicans want to limit voting rights.
That is so funny. Again this shows us you want to believe their word over their actions.
All 9 huh?
Yes, examples of all 9 KINDS of people. Again your lack of reading comprehension may suggest a head injury.
1.67 million voters were prevented or deterred from voting in 2008 as a result of long lines.
“So many people were voting, the lines were too long. So much for it deterring voting”
This is logic? I suppose that’s how the cult bubble would see it. Maybe, just maybe, the problem was lack of voting machines/booths.
This is part of my point that you’ve dodged all along. Limiting poll access. The other is restrictions on registration.
Now about that bet....
Why won’t you stand up for your beliefs? You spew them so casually.
//Redundancy was intentional.//
on your part, Three, it certainly is. You say the same patter over and over again. I do believe the last time you had a new thought it was one you found in a box of Republican Corn Flakes.
pssst....word is that there is great voter fraud going on during the voting on 'Dancing with the Stars'
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57611909/dancing-with-the-stars-ballroom-stunned-by-unexpected-elimination/
.... you best investigate. right after you buy a new box of cereal.
We are radicals, working to overturn the present power structure of this country” – Paul Weyrich 1984
That is the whole idea behind political parities. As for Weyrich, he's not a GOP politician, he holds no position within the GOP. What "influential" Democrats could I claim represent the Democrat Party? Ingrid E. Newkirk is an influential Democrat who runs a political organization and she wants to ban wearing leather or eating meat. Do you think she represents 51 million Democrats?
This is logic?
Yes. Voter ID didn't affect turn out. Long lines might have made some people leave, but that has nothing to do with IDs - sorry. It takes about 5 seconds to check IDs. That was that polling place doing a bad job.
the problem was lack of voting machines/booths.
Probably, which I eluded to when I said Barack Obama in 2008 brought out record numbers of voters. That was not anticipated. I don't see how you could. That said, that was a fluke year. Election turn out today is higher than it was during the 90s but it will likely never be what it was in 2008 for a long time. That had nothing to do with checking IDs.
Bottom line, you haven't shown that the majority of Republicans want to limit poll access for political reasons. You haven't produced any evidence. You've got a few quotes - unlinked to boot - of a handful of individuals most of whom aren't policy makers or elected officials. The few who are, were taken out of context and in one case is a low level party flunky who is no longer with the party.
If you said "Republicans want to ban gay marriage" you could point to any number of polls where a whole lot of Republicans want an amendment on marriage. If you wanted to say - "Republicans want to deport all illegal aliens" you could probably find a poll where a large portion of them want to do that. You can even find a poll where a large portion of them believe Obama was born in Kenya and is a Muslim. But what you can't find - is even one poll that states even 10% of Republicans want to limit poll access. So instead you trot out a bunch of straw men as evidence.
Fail.
Bottom line, radical Right Republicans are actively suppressing voter turnout.
Bottom line, Republicans admit their intent behind voter restrictions.
Bottom line, Republican enacted laws are the evidence of their voter suppression
Bottom line, Republican laws trump your straw man “polls” argument.
Bottom line, limited poll access by lack of voting machines/booths reduced voter participation in 2012.
Bottom line, voters were turned away from polls for not having Republican politically correct ID’s.
Bottom line, Weyrich was an influential Republican, creating a Republican think tank.
Bottom line, you haven’t shown a voter impersonation problem.
Bottom line, your arrogant assertions false radical Right ideological dogma are so weak you refuse to admit you’re wrong.
Bottom line, you cannot accept being mistaken.
Bottom line, you attack my case, backed by reality based evidence, with straw man arguments and unfounded assertions.
Bottom line, none of your links show any cases of voter impersonation fraud at the polls. Zero.
Bottom line, you twist my words and ignore my correct points. You offer no reality based evidence as you dismiss the facts I present.
Bottom line, you don’t care about evidence, you have your beliefs.
Bottom line, you believe Republicans like their cult of true believers.
Bottom line, you present your positions as an amoral coward and crybaby.
Now about that bet...
My statement: “most voters in Michigan, and as well as the entire US, voted for Democratic representation”
Your statement: “Not true, but whatever.”
Wanna bet 10,000 bucks?
C’mon, stand up for your beliefs.
You are a sore loser.
Bottom line.
radical Right Republicans are actively suppressing voter turnout.
No they aren't. We've seen record turn out.
Republicans admit their intent behind voter restrictions.
You can't sight one poll to evidence that.
Republican enacted laws are the evidence of their voter suppression
We've had record turn out since voter ID laws were enacted. Everyone who brings proper ID and meets basic criteria can vote under all state laws.
limited poll access by lack of voting machines/booths reduced voter participation in 2012.
Actual voting machines handled local authorities, in some of the districts you mentioned these were Democrats. You are using poor management as evidence and connecting imaginary dots.
voters were turned away from polls for not having Republican politically correct ID’s
Requiring proper state/federal ID is reasonable. Not having one in this day and age is willful.
Weyrich was an influential Republican, creating a Republican think tank.
Weyrich is not a policy maker for the Republican party, nor does he hold any authority within the Republican Party. He's a guy who runs a think tank. He represents the GOP as much as much as Ingrid E. Newkirk represents the DNC.
ou haven’t shown a voter impersonation problem.
I showed you two. One where individuals had multiple absentee ballots (with obvious intent to impersonate others) and again in a write in campaign where hundreds of write in ballots had the same hand writing.
you cannot accept being mistaken.
I admitted frankly that I don't know much about Diebold machines. I can see the voter fraud in my own community.
you twist my words
I reveal your meaning.
“most voters in Michigan, and as well as the entire US, voted for Democratic representation”
118 million Americans cast votes for Barack Obama in 2012. Even half of Americans would be 150 million. Less than half is not a majority. It was however enough to win lawfully.
Here is a graphic of of the Michigan 2010 election. Rick Snyder crushed Virg Bernero with 1.874 million votes to 1.28 million. The Michigan has 9.8 million citizens. Of those, about 5 million identify as conservative and about 3.8 million as Democrats. Both in polls and in elections, the majority of Michiganders are not Democrats.
Where is my 10,000 dollars?
From your florida post article.
But a former GOP chairman and former Gov. Charlie Crist, both of whom have been ousted from the party,
These people were kicked out of the party. So how credible are their allegations? Especially now that they are associates with Democrats.
So how credible are their allegations?
Laughable coming from one who only believes Republican allegations. You are the true believer.
So you “reveal meaning” by twisting words to fit your prejudice. There’s no better word than prejudice for the radical Right portrayal of liberals as “destroying” our economy/country. You sound no different than Bible thumpers accusing liberals of being Satan worshippers.
You also desperately need to portray absentee or write in fraud as voter impersonation that ID laws would remedy. They don’t. Michigan has an ID law. Established laws address your TWO examples. Nice try,
“Most voters in Michigan, and as well as the entire US, voted for Democratic representation”
Still true no matter how much you feebly try to twist my words to the 2010 election of Snyder.
You are fundamentally dishonest or a deluded koolade drinker, buddy.
Just being straight with you.
Now for some more bottom lines.
Here are the 2012 Michigan US House of Representatives vote numbers:
Democratic – 2,327,985
Republican- 2,086,804
Here are the 2012 National US House of Representatives vote numbers:
Democratic – 59,967,096
Republican – 58,523,501
THIS is but a snapshot of the radical Right’s multiple front War on Democracy. Some “representative republic” eh?
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others", in your “Republic” of Republicans.
So, yeah, where IS your $10,000?
Laughable coming from one who only believes Republican allegations. You are the true believer.
Its kinda funny how you'd leave out that these guys weren't Republicans anymore but were now Democrats.
There’s no better word than prejudice for the radical Right portrayal of liberals as “destroying” our economy/country.
Millions have lost their health insurance because of ObamaCare - recently 1 million Californians alone. Further, the labor force is at a 35 year low with record numbers on assistance. These numbers have all doubled in the last 5 years. So yes, Democrats are behind that and the damage is severe.
Michigan has an ID law
No it doesn't. Not when you can sign your fake name to a worthless piece of paper to avoid showing ID. You know that.
Still true no matter how much you feebly try to twist my words to the 2010 election of Snyder.
I don't think true means what you think it means. Rick Snyder won the popular vote.
But its cute you putting up house election results. You are aware that the entire house and senate both in state and local elections doesn't all run in one year right?
You've linked a fraction of total voters and thought you had a point. How cute.
Its also funny, because in your own link the vast majority of local legislative districts went by popular vote to Republicans. Your own link doesn't support your contention.
local legislative districts went by popular vote to Republicans
It's called gerrymandering, a tool used against democratic representation.
Michigan has an ID law
No it doesn't.
Wanna make a bet?
You're twisting in the wind.
Too bad nobody listened to liberals on healthcare. The corpo-dems implemented the old GOP/Heritage Foundation/Romney scheme.
Medicare for all is the only sane and compassionate healthcare system. Billions into corporate pockets that deliver ZERO healthcare is a waste.
Further, the labor force is at a 35 year low with record numbers on assistance.
Yes, thanks to corporate written trade agreements, GOP/corpo-dem financial de-regulation, and the Bush Recession.
Rick Snyder won the popular vote....the entire house and senate both in state and local elections doesn't all run in one year
And there he goes again, the straw man is off to see the Wizard.
Dave,,,, you need a new post. I would suggest one about Moses leading the Israelists from Egypt. It is a well know fact, gees everyone in Detroit knows it, that Moses only took along Jews with photo IDs.
I'm sorry...I am very involved right now on a different dummy...
http://www.ourdumbsenator.com/
.. he believes Google dispenses birth control.....
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/03/27/451563/ron-johnson-google-birth-control/
I believe in birth control...but I always ask the woman if she uses it... and has a photo ID.
I think it was the Louisiana State house that wanted to pass a bill requiring a Photo ID before you can have sex. Free will look it up, I'm sure. You cannot make that kind of stuff up
I can't comment on Free's shit anymore. He is just too dumb to be funny.
It's called gerrymandering
Ah the time honored excuse for why liberals can't win elections. "Its not faaaaaaair. The people in the district don't like us!" Its funny how you never hear Republicans crying about gerrymandering in Liberal states. I suppose they figure they have to convince people instead of whining about how the district lines are drawn. There are a lot of things I can't stand about the GOP, but at least they don't cry when they don't win. Maybe you could get some cheese with that whine or even better pick your vagina off the floor and quit complaining you can't talk people into voting for your party who live in districts to the right of North Korea. I hope you aren't this much of a pussy in front of the prisoners, or its just a matter of time before you have a real bad day at work. They aren't as tolerant of weakness as I am.
Wanna make a bet?
You wanna bet some voter impersonator can't just sign a worthless piece of paper without so much as a library card to prove his identity in place of an "ID" in the state of Michigan? If that's your bet, I'll take it. I now they "Promise real hard" but sorry, it ain't flying in my book.
Medicare for all is the only sane and compassionate healthcare system.
Paid for by the young and healthy trying to build lives for the old who had 65 years to build lives. Lets expand that more. Yes, more baby boomers whipping more Gen X'ers and Gen Y'ers and Millennials into paying even more of their bills. Why do the old feel so comfortable eating the young? These are your children, stop stealing from them.
Yes, thanks to corporate written trade agreements,
Enacted and signed by Democrats, Bill Clinton chief among them. Tell me again how Bill wasn't real Democrat. Its so convenient how when I bring up the indefensible shit Democrats do - all of a sudden Dave Dubya kicks them out of the party. But then defends the shit out of them the very next post. Like when you said Obama wasn't a real "Progressive" back when we discussed how he has expanded warrant less wire taps beyond Dick Chaney's dreams and now on this post he's soooooo awesome. Just admit you love Obama and be done with it. I'll admit Bush was a fucking scum bag. Its not hard for me to do. Horrible President. Nothing redeeming about it except killing a shit load of Al'Qaeda... the ONLY thing he got right. Literally ONE data point in an 8 year agenda I agreed with. Its practically coincidence.
You can't do that. You're too busy choking on Obama's dick in private while publicly you have to sell him out once in a while when I back you into an intellectual corner about his creepy growth of the surveillance state. Its funny, when Obama ran in 2008 I actually agreed with a lot he said. Too bad it was all a huge fucking lie the Dems told to snatch power worse than ever Dick Chaney could have even dreamed of.
And you want to give them even more of it - what with what an awesome job they are doing - A 2.5% shift down since Democrats took over. That works out to 4 million new wards of the state not even looking for a job. And genius Democrats just caused a million Californians to lose their insurance and be forced to buy more costly plans on a website that doesn't work or be fined. Great fucking job. This after Obama's LIE that "If you like your plan, you can keep it!"
Let me ask you Dave, do you agree that was a lie?
And now you'll tell us how - "See, we tried the GOP's way with RomneyCare but it doesn't work. So now we need socialized medicine."
As if your fucked up track record justifies you to run a shit station in Idaho? If the GOP is the party of no - the DNC is the party of FAIL.
Yes, you are fucking up America. Please, stop.
You see an Obama who take orders from corporate masters. With a thousand new regulations a year, I don't see that. I don't see corporations corrupting a President, I see a Chicago style President corrupting corporations. "Do this and donate that... or else!"
They are indeed in bed, we have different opinions on who the rapist is.
I see a Chicago style President corrupting corporations. "Do this and donate that... or else!"
Is that so, Rush?
“So far in this recovery, corporations have captured an unusually high share of the income gains,” said Ethan Harris, co-head of global economics at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. “The U.S. corporate sector is in a lot better health than the overall economy. And until we get a full recovery in the labor market, this will persist.”
They are indeed in bed, we have different opinions on who the rapist is.
It’s clear to all of us outside your bubble who is getting screwed .
The upper 1 percent of Americans are now taking in nearly a quarter of the nation’s income every year. In terms of wealth rather than income, the top 1 percent control 40 percent. Their lot in life has improved considerably.
While the top 1 percent have seen their incomes rise 18 percent over the past decade, those in the middle have actually seen their incomes fall.
It’s so noble of you and Rush to defend the poor victimized elites and corporations.
Question: Which party in 2012 got more votes for House representatives in Michigan and in the US?
Question: What is Obama, according to Ron Paul?
One more question: Why do beliefs trump facts in your Bubble?
Answer. It’s true for all cults.
So far in this recovery, corporations have captured an unusually high share of the income gains
That means they are issuing higher dividends and holding higher cash reserves. Why do you think that is. Presumably "the evil rich" would like to expand and take more market share. Why don't they?
It’s so noble of you and Rush to defend the poor victimized elites and corporations
How much money does a person have to make each year before its okay in your book to shake them down?
Which party in 2012 got more votes for House representatives in Michigan and in the US?
Federal election - Democrats. Obama took the state. On the local side, Michigan voters reelected their Republican legislators. So its split. Apparently Michiganders like their Reps, and hated Mit Romney. I can relate, I like my Rep and hated Mit Romney. My rep wasn't up for reelection and since the Republicans kicked my candidate off the state ballot, I refused to vote and choose between the better of two douchebags. Now sine I didn't vote Republican, would you characterize me as a Democrat?
Why do beliefs trump facts in your Bubble?
Right back at'cha.
Ron Paul thinks Obama is a warmonger.
I think Jihadists are warmongers, and we're just taking out the trash when we step on them like cock roaches. Ron Paul is hopelessly deluded on foreign policy. That must be why I would never vote for him.
But Ron Paul had something else to say about Barack Obama. And this time he was right on.
Which party in 2012 got more votes for House representatives in Michigan and in the US?
Tough question? Facts get in the way of your beliefs?
Why one won the most districts?
As for election results, you can read them here.
But I'm curious, are you suggesting we abandon our Constitutional Republic system and adopt a direct democracy system?
No I'm not suggesting we abandon our Constitutional Republic. I am suggesting a representative democracy that proportionately represents the people. You may whine about majority rule, but minority rule is antithetical to a representative republic.
What's the point in voting if the majority of voters lose and the minority party dictates policy?
Here are the 2012 Michigan US House of Representatives vote numbers:
Democratic – 2,327,985
Republican- 2,086,804
Here are the 2012 National US House of Representatives vote numbers:
Democratic – 59,967,096
Republican – 58,523,501
THIS is but a snapshot of the radical Right’s multiple front War on Democracy. Some “representative republic” eh?
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others", in your “Republic” of Republicans.
but minority rule is antithetical to a representative republic.
The whole point of American government is to protect the minority from the majority. You're talking about erasing the rights of 49% of people because 51% want to. Majority rule is just a mob.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
- Ben Franklin.
The job of the legislature is to represent THEIR DISTRICTS not people who live four counties away. They won THE MAJORITY of their districts. The Michigan Legislature is doing its job.
Yes, and, as we know, some DISTRICTS are more equal than others.
So your "Republic" is one wolf deciding which sheep to eat.
Sounds fair and balanced.
Dave... just a couple of notes about voter suppression in Wisco... ahttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/11/15/wisconsin-republicans-move-to-cut-early-voting-hours/
democrats tend to vote early
they also passed a bill that would let you vote..without an ID.....if you declared yourself poor...that would also make you ballott autmatically a provisional one and subject to scrutiny by appointe Republican election officials.
and...as has been typical with the Republican run Scott Walker admin... it was done late at night on the last night before session adjournment... with out any public hearings.
no suppression her. have a good weekend.
democrats tend to vote early
... and often.
democrats tend to vote early
... and often...
In the Right's bubble.
Then I guess that voter ID won't be such a big deal then? I mean, if nobody's out there defrauding elections, then really who is going to be harmed by that law? The handful of people who don't have an ID in this day in age? I think they can go get one. God forbid they have to spend $32 on something that you need to get through daily life anyway.
Free0352: "Same way we do it with a DL, every couple of years [your voter registration card] expires and you have to go in and get a new one."
Sure, Republicans would love that!...just another tactic to discourage voting.
No thanks.
By the way, do you have to register your firearms every couple of years? Maybe you should...including pictures with each one.
"Sure I do. And like I said - I think you can defraud any system electronic or otherwise. So if you want to use some other system, that's fine so long as that system is an improvement. I've never used an electronic voting machine, so I can't really speak to the subject. Frankly, I don't care either way."
This is what you should be railing about! This is the real threat to our democracy -- not voter fraud, which, as I have stated over and over again, is statistically insignificant and has no bearing on any election's outcome.
Electoral fraud is the danger. Why can't you see this? As is customary with you, you search for demons where none exist...and are blind to the real dangers to democracy and justice -- even when they stare you in the face.
Quit being such a tool.
JG... I do not think he can stop meing a tool. He is like a member of the Flat Earth Society....nothing goes around for him.
Dave..just a thought. Years ago I had the good fortune to become a close friend with a chef. Learned many things; one of which was..."beware of celery". What he meant is that clery offers great flavor in the mix...but too much in any one recipe kills the flavor of the dish.
Free has gotten to be too much celery.
Free has gotten to be too much celery.
That's a very kind way to put it, compared to Free's vulgar attempts at colorful invective.
He can't help himself, you know. It's his religion.
//It's his religion.//
.... and sometimes the kindest thing you can do for a Jehovah... is shut the door. Keeps them moving.
By the way, do you have to register your firearms every couple of years?
I have to renew my concealed handgun license every few years. I don't have a problem with that. That's because while my gun's serial number doesn't change after I register it, my face does - so the picture has to be updated. So what's your point?
It's his religion.
Yes, but you're the "spiritual" one... remember?
Free0352: "So what's your point?"
I think you know.
Don't you think it's time you registered your firearms, concealed or otherwise, and handgun or not, every couple of years?
Yes, but you're the "spiritual" one... remember?
Perhaps, but one without the need for the dogma of a political Cult Bubble, Popes, and Rand.
Your hero Paul Ryan personifies all three.
Talk about warning flags...
No cults for me, thank you.
Don't you think it's time you registered your firearms, concealed or otherwise, and handgun or not, every couple of years
I already did it - my pistols at least - less than a year ago. You don't have to register long guns in Michigan. I didn't mind.
Your hero Paul Ryan personifies all three.
I'm not a big fan of Paul Ryan. He's budget deal was a joke. Balancing the budget in ten years? What a joke. You could easily balance it in one day with a balanced budget amendment. He's another big spending conservative like George Bush. Also, I'm fairly sure he's Christian. I'm an atheist. It would be hard for us to have the dame "dogma." ;)
Free0352: "Same way we do it with a DL, every couple of years [your voter registration card] expires and you have to go in and get a new one."
and...
"I already did it - [registered] my pistols at least - less than a year ago. You don't have to register long guns in Michigan. I didn't mind."
Well then, being the rational and logical person that you claim to be, and being consistent in your argument, it would seem reasonable that you'd also support the registration, every two years, of all firearms -- pistols, long guns, or otherwise -- by everyone.
Is this correct?
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